Have you ever had to tell a student they weren't good enough for professional theatre?

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 10:40am

I take it most of you are teachers and educators of the arts so i was wondering if you have ever had to tell a kid they didn't "have it"?

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 10:54am

>> I take it most of you are teachers and educators of the arts

I'm of the mindset that it seems more likely "most" posters here aren't - but who knows?

I would hope that specifically, as a teacher, no one would make that choice. A teacher's job is to bring the best out in their students. ...Even if "the best" isn't very much when compared to other pupils.

I think the responsibility for determining whether someone doesn't "have it" should fall on producers/directors via whether they cast or don't cast. Eventually, the individual will make that determination on their own. A "good" teacher would probably never make that determination for the individual.

Where would the world be if Madonna's teacher had told her the truth?
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.
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>DOH!<
Updated On: 5/26/13 at 10:54 AM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:00am

"Where would the world be if Madonna's teacher had told her the truth?"

hahah WOW

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:01am

>> hahah WOW

Hence, the "DOH!"

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:02am

It is not the place of a teacher to kill a dream. Who knows what kind of niche that particular person might be right for. Also, it's impossible to know what might "click" for a student in the future. An experience, a different method of acting (so many things) could change a performer forever. Following a dream (no matter how slight the possibility of success) can bring one to so many roads.

And NO, most folks on here are not educators. I have students all the time that I am suprised either did or didn't get acceptance into fine programs.

[egghumor]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:04am

I was typing as John Adams was posting, and I heartily agree.

I taught acting for both majors and non-majors at a big university while earning my graduate degree. I had a background in acting, but much greater experience as a stage manager and casting director.

I never said such things to any of my students. My only way of "discouraging" students in any way was to examine with them, how the business works, and the advantages some actors have over others (education, training, or family member working steadily in the business).

Any student who told me their career plan was to go to New York or Los Angeles, I always encouraged them to go for it, so to speak. They must forge their own path and experience. My job was to do my best to help prepare them for that endeavor, if they chose to keep going.


Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:04 AM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:06am

I think Madonna is definitely talented but i never cared for her. My respect for dropped when i saw her play EVITA.

John Adams:

very interesting view on the topic but what would you say if a student who was just absolutely horrible at theatre came up to you wanting to audition for all these big MT schools? Would you tell them the truth or would you let them go into the lions den?

Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:06 AM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:10am

"It is not the place of a teacher to kill a dream. Who knows what kind of niche that particular person might be right for."

Okay but what if they are completely awful at it? Say a kid wants to audition for AMDA or whatever and the kid can never stay on pitch and has never had a lead in anything EVER! Would you give him consent to audition for big theatre colleges or would you tell him to find something else?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:13am

It doesn't matter. Any individual needs to figure out his or her life. If they don't "give it their best shot", will they have regrets forever?

Just like I tell the parents of my kids that decide to go for it: their only decision is to decide how long to financially help their kid as they are a struggling artist. Only the individual can decide how much struggling is "enough".



I don't have to give him consent. That is his decision.

Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:13 AM

[egghumor]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:15am

I TOTALLY agree with dramamama!

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:17am

>> what would you say if a student who was just absolutely horrible at theatre came up to you wanting to audition for all these big MT schools? Would you tell them the truth or would you let them go into the lions den?

"Lion's den" -- of course!
If the student is to be successful, they absolutely HAVE to be able to tolerate the Simon Cowells of the business. In your scenario, it would be the school's choice to decide acceptance or dismissal, not mine (if I were the teacher).

And would I really be the best teacher if I were to try and prepare a student for their possible failure? Better to discuss failures (and how to deal with them) after they happen, I think. Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:17 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:18am

What if the path brings them to the love of their life? Or brings them to finding out they'd be a terrific teacher? Or that they have skill as a director, or dramaturge, or designer, or brings them to the realization that medicine is where they belong?

Life is about the journey, not the final outcome.

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:20am

"And would I really be the best teacher if I were to try and prepare a student for their possible failure? Better to discuss failures 9and how to deal with them) after they happen, I think."

It would probably be wise of you to help the kid on his audition for the school. Even if you know he is horrible it would still help to give him guidance.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:23am

You never asked if teacher should coach a kid and help prep them for their auditions.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:23am

>> It would probably be wise of you to help the kid on his audition for the school.

Define, "help".

[egghumor]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:24am

I've seen professional theater change quite a bit during my lifetime. Decades ago, stage actors were stage actors, dancers were dancers, and so on... Rarely did film actors lead Broadway plays and musicals as they do today.

I think of Broadway actors/performers these days almost as Olympic athletes. Young actors are expected to be in great physical shape, possess strong singing voices and be nimble dancers -- and highly versatile.

It's a huge investment in all sorts of cross-training. Very expensive and time-consuming. One is basically becoming their own "business" or "brand" (as Vanessa Williams referred to herself recently). Any person with a weak talent or skill potential will realize this weakness early in the training process.

Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:24 AM

[Kelly2]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:25am

I don't know. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, I completely agree with dramamama that life is about the journey and that pursuing something that ultimately doesn't work out the way you wanted can lead you to a whole host of unanticipated opportunities. On the other, if a child is truly not gifted it can be very expensive for both the child and their family to continue to pursue a career in this industry, various coaching can be hundreds of dollars an hour, all kinds of dance lessons, etc. and that's before anyone moves anywhere and has to deal with headshots and paying rent and somehow having a job and still having time to hit auditions constantly, etc. It's incredibly expensive and demanding and I'm not sure how I feel about a teacher who could watch someone and know full well that they wouldn't have the talent required to make it somewhere like New York and encourage them to go for it anyway given the cost.

I'm not sure what the right solution/balance is, but a friend was essentially told by a conservatory teacher at one of the top schools that though she was talented, her skillset and specific type meant that finding work in the facet of performing she desired was very unlikely for her. She really appreciated the honesty because it allowed her to use her time pursuing some others things and find a job and a niche she really loved.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:27am

broadway guy, do you have an axe to grind with a former or current teacher? Has someone belittled your skills?

C'mere, honey. Put your head on my shoulder and we'll talk about it...

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:29am

You could take time to listen to his song or monologue for auditions and tweak them and help him polish his audition so he stands a better chance at being successful at the audition even if he is horrible at theatre.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:30am

I don't have to encourage them just because I wouldn't tell them it's hopeless. There is a lot of grey in between those two things. And again, things can change on a dime. I wouldn't begin to guess where a current 17 year old could be by the time they are 22. Or 30. (Ok, I could guess -- but I wouldn't necessarily be right.)

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:30am

"broadway guy, do you have an axe to grind with a former or current teacher? Has someone belittled your skills?"

HAHAHAH no, im very successful in the college path that i have chose. But thanks for the concern

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:31am

^^
Well, YES! (see question above)

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:34am

I've worked with, and went to college with actors I would never have dreamt would be successful outside of their non-professional starting gates. And yet, they are.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:36am

You keep going on about how a teacher should help with the audition piece -- but you never ASKED about that. You simply only asked whether the student should be told.

I would coach a student in the same way I would any other that came to me for help.

(And no one here said they WOULDN'T help.)

Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:36 AM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 5/26/13 at 11:38am

"if a child is truly not gifted it can be very expensive for both the child and their family to continue to pursue a career in this industry, various coaching can be hundreds of dollars an hour, all kinds of dance lessons, etc. and that's before anyone moves anywhere and has to deal with headshots and paying rent and somehow having a job and still having time to hit auditions constantly, etc. It's incredibly expensive and demanding and I'm not sure how I feel about a teacher who could watch someone and know full well that they wouldn't have the talent required to make it somewhere like New York and encourage them to go for it anyway given the cost."

Exactly my concern but (im going to play devils advocate) What if that horrible student takes off a year to really hone his skills and get the professional help he needs ( voice training, acting workshops) etc etc and comes back a completely different person a year later? I bet the teacher would feel very foolish for telling him to not audition for big schools the year before. Plus there is also the idea of doing the BA track for a couple years and re auditioning for bigger schools once that horrible kid has gotten more and more experience on stage.


Updated On: 5/26/13 at 11:38 AM