Actor Bashing- Page 3

[JeffG]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 4:55pm

Etoile:

You keep using the pronoun "he". I am wondering if you are speaking of someone in specific or in general. I can't imagine anyone being able to bilk $100 out of someone to see a show any more than I can believe the same person might log onto here afterwards and post about a bad box office experience after not even paying for said ticket.

I think we both need to leave our fantasy worlds behind, Etoile.

[Chlydomnestra]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 4:56pm

Interesting topic.
I'll start with admitting that I am a bit of a 'Paula' when it comes to critiquing performances, simply because it's hard to get up there and do what they are doing.
As for my performance background, I've studied dance and voice, but I was a Theatre Arts Major in college, where my primary focus was Acting. I have an extensive Acting background, and feel safe in offering constructive criticism for acting performance. I perform regularly in straight plays and have worked on several musicals. Professionally though, I am a mental health case manager for adolescents and children. It pays the bills! That brings me back to my original statement, that it's hard to get up there and do what these folks are doing, and 'no' not every performance is stellar, but they are there for a reason, and are doing the best they can. It's a weird place, Broadway. A magnificent performance isn't always able to keep a show going (i.e. Sweeney Todd, The Boy from Oz, You're A Good Man Charlie Brown All were great, but what went wrong), and on the reverse end, sometimes what I would call bad performances from a person can be masked by a well received show.
There's no figuring it, but it's hard to be an actor, and thos of you are actors know this to be true. You also probably know that a lot of actors are self-depricating, and usually very hard on themselves. I am, and that's why I rarely read a critique of myself. There are a handful of people I take critiquing from (i.e. director, acting coach, close friends, other actors, and even my family). Only those people know the process I went through to create my character, and I feel they are the only ones who can offer me 'true' constructive criticism.

[justme2]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 4:56pm

Very good point and also absolutely true. I dislike when people don't back up their comments regarding a performance as well. It's almost bashing if someone comes on board and says something like:

" I walked out of Sweet Charity at intermission and ran like I was in Anaktova (sic)."

That's not a critique/review of the show.

[Plum]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:05pm

As long as we're arguing semantics, there's a difference between negative feedback, constructive criticism, and the much-dreaded bashing.

Bashing has absolutely no constructive purpose- the easiest way to tell bashing from negative feedback is that it usually gets personal. When a poster seems to be saying that a performer isn't just bad at their job, but also a bad person, or that a show doesn't just fail to entertain but also ruins the lives of children...well, that poster is probably a basher.

Negative feedback is when you say, at least semi-politely, that you don't like something, but are unable to give reasons for it. This isn't an awful thing to do- sometimes we just can't articulate why we don't like something. If it doesn't get personal or unecessarily nasty, it's not bashing.

Constructive criticism is what we should all aspire for when expressing our opinions on shows, performers, etc., even if we can't always achieve it. It says what wasn't liked then gives reasons why and possible alternative ways of doing things. The ability to crticize constructively, I think, comes with experience, and it does help to have some background in the area.

For example, as a string player who's had to tune her own instrument for years, I feel pretty confident when I say someone is singing off-pitch. But since I have very little background in dance, if I like or don't like some choreography I often can't say why. That doesn't completely invalidate my opinion, though.

In the case of acting, especially, I really don't like the implication that unless you've done it, you can't criticize it. The whole idea of acting is being able to express your character's emotions and thought processes through verbal and non-verbal means to the audience. If I, as an audience member, am just not feeling anger from you when you're supposed to be angry, I have every right to say so. If I see you picking scenery out of your teeth in a production that's otherwise low-key, I'll call you on that, too. I think one's ability to verbalize opinions on acting can improve by studying the craft, but I also think it's inherent in any theatergoer who's paying attention.

[robbiej]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:13pm

'as a string player who's had to tune her own instrument for years'

that's simply the dirtiest thing I've read on this site in quite some time.

Brava, Plum!

[Craig]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:17pm

That was well said Plum.

I hated the choregraphy. It sucked and X shouldn't ever be allowed to work on Broadway again (bashing)

The choregraphy didn't do much for me. I have seen better work from x and felt they didn't do as good of a job as in -show-. (Negative feedback)

In the # ____ I felt that the choreographer could have had groups positioned x and x and using less waving hands to more effectively convery the sadness of the song and characters performing in it. I thought it was an odd choice for a tap break in the funeral scene and it ruined the moment for me. (Constructive Criticism)

Naturally, if one is "in" the business, they are more likely to be critical. It would be hard not to - but as I said in my earlier post, we ALWAYS have the choice in language we use.

[robbiej]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:19pm

Yeah, but, Craig...you didn't say anything that could be misinterpreted by a perv like me the way our Plum did.

And for that you need to be bashed.

[Craig]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:29pm

Just for that I am coming to your show just to heckle you and then bash you in a post here on the board.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:31pm

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people's opinions are just more valuable than those of others.

[justme2]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:37pm

Craig,

I wrote the same things that Plum did, only earlier in the thread. Yet, no... (insert sniff here) "Well said, Justme2!" for me.

I am hurt.

[etoile]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:37pm

Robbie has a show? How come no one has posted anything about it here? Robbie, we need details.

[robbiej]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:40pm

I know...I've been so demure about it...but go here!
BASKET CASE

[Craig]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:51pm

Justme - well said too!

It means less when it's solicited though, doesn't it? Sorry.

[Chlydomnestra]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:57pm

I think that anyone and everyone has the right to their opinion, and I don't think you have to have done it to critique it, but I really believe that you should be knowledgeable about the craft to offer constructive criticism. The reason I say this, is because if an audience member is not feeling the anger, that an actor on the stage is supposed to be conveyeing, there might be a problem, but that's really subjective, because not everything that makes me angry, makes others angry(if the actor is not believably angry, then that's a big problem and probably not a good actor). But not every situation in a musical/play will evoke in an audience member the emotion that a character on stage wants to convey, because they may not be able to relate to it. I liken this to the fact that I bawled my eyes out at the end of Moulin Rouge, and my mother was unaffected, or individuals who laughed all through American Pie, and I was rather repulsed. Musical/Play-wise...Rent evokes more emotion in me than I care to express, and a friend of mine just sat there. Different strokes for different folks I guess. That is why it is important to really know the craft of acting, to effectively critique a performer, because they would bettter be able to look at every aspect that goes into the performance as a whole. Of course, this is just my opinion, and you know, in a perfect world and all that stuff.
I think there is a big difference in giving your opinion and critiquing. Everyone has an opinion, myself included, but not everyone has the finess and background to critique in a constructive manner.

"I'm kinda pretty, and pretty damn smart. I like romantic things, like music and art. And as you know I have a gigantic heart, so why don't I have a boyfriend? F*@# it sucks to be me!"

[cathyhyatt]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 6:26pm

I'll admit I could be pretty critical about my opinions on this board.

But I stand by everything I've ever said because other than maybe a few times(when just plain bashing people hahah)I really explained how I felt and not just through my opinion out there.

I also agree that if you know nothing of this business or have had no training or credible experience then you shouldn't be judging. But I can also say for myself...I have been doing musical theater since I was 5 years old(now 17...I have been trained in both voice and acting...for consecutive years...privately I mean(well, I've also taken a number of classes but anyway..).

I think I am perfectly well classified to be criticing performers...for what I think is correct or incorrect and what I like or dislike.

Critisism is part of this business. A BIG part.

I doubt the actor sit on this board(because God knows they don't have the time) and read what we do or do not say about them.

This board is where broadway fans can express their opinions on shows, actors, etc and I think it's perfectly fine if it continues that way. But I also highly agree that people shouldn't critisize other people if they have no idea what they are talking about themselves.

Posted: 4/27/05 at 8:11pm

Just to answer Elphaba's question, no I haven't had a bitter experience. I'm not a Broadway actor.

The thing is that I post here so rarely and today I got reading through some threads and was really taken aback at how nasty people can be with their opinions. EVERYONE has a right to an opinion be it good or bad or somewhere in between. It just makes me nauseous, however, to know that these people work hard at what they do and then come to boards like this and read really nasty stuff written about them. There IS a difference between bashing and constructive critisism.

Thank you to Craig, JustMe, Plum and others who put it more succinctly than I.

[bwaybaby891]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 8:43pm

The "high school kids" on this board are the future of Broadway, keeping it from dying in this time of movies. We are what Broadway will become so don't put down our opinions.

I do think the bashing on this board has gotten extreme and needs the be kept unser control.

[Phantom2]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:24pm

In the words of Theodore Roosevelt...

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

[Amneris]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 11:38pm

i like that quote a lot and it's true.

I think actors should put that in their bios during press week hehe.

[Derech2]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 12:45am

Well I'm glad that you think because I'm a highschooler I'm not competent enough to have a strong opinion about a performance.

[Derech2]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 12:45am

Well I'm glad that you think because I'm a highschooler I'm not competent enough to have a strong opinion about a performance.