12-step programs. — Page 2

I was being generous with the 25%, PJ.

And seriously, whatever works for people is great. I was just responding to the original post, and I think the "higher power" issue is not as easily ignored or worked around by somebody like DG.

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Congrats Artscallion! It is always wonderful to hear of someone else who has long term recovery time under their belt!
Sometimes the "Higher Power Problem" can be just another intellectualized reason why someone won't try recovery or give the Program a chance. I wrapped myself in that quandry when I was starting out and was told by people, "Screw the god or higher power, substitute the group or a freaking can of Coke or anything to relinquish your power to! You have been trying your best to be in control and look where it has brought you!". For me, truer words were never spoken and after getting my ass kicked a few more times I finally tried it. I guess looking back on it it was just a way of obtaining some humility, that I had to understand sometimes I needed help from outside.
What worked for me doesn't work for everyone as the stats prove, but, nothing ventured nothing gained

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Here, here, Miss P! And good for you, ArtScallion.

The ultimate answer for the higher-power question is Snafu's friend's "You have been trying your best to be in control and look where it has brought you!"

If you're in control and everything's fine, fine. If you're in control but you're also addicted, broke and co-dependent, a little humility might help.

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But broke is even worse.

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We'll have to agree to disagree on that, Namo.

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Step One:

We admitted we were powerless over posting on message boards- that our lives had become unmanageable

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Updated On: 11/28/07 at 03:52 PM

it's still hard for me to reconcile all the god stuff, especially when I tend to believe that religion exploits people who are vulnerable and co-dependant.

The Higher Power That Exploits People(tm) is not the higher power that people in 12-step groups call on.

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"The Higher Power That Exploits People(tm) is not the higher power that people in 12-step groups call on."

Now, Peej, you're overcompensating. If this so-called Higher Power can be whatever the person believes in or not (including but not limited to a can of Coke), then you can bet there has to be some serious overlap between those who "believe" in that version and people in 12 step programs.

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Yes, but there is also some serious overlap between those who believe in a higher power that is a goddess or the Buddha and people in 12 step programs.

The point is that it's silly to avoid the help that 12-step philosophy can lend because of the Crusades or the Inquisition or the Catholic Church's attitudes toward birth control, homosexuality or abortion.

There are gay 12-step groups and Unitarian-Universalist 12-step groups and even Pagan 12-step groups, which eliminate 3 steps:

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THE NINE-STEP FREEDOM TRAIL

1) We came to feel enslaved by excessive behaviors which were harmful to us, throwing our health and relationships out of balance through addictions, compulsions, or both.

2) We realized that resources were available to help us win our freedom, if we were willing to use them.

3) We became willing to reach out for help, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

4) We sought help from our Deities, fellow humans, healers, clergy, groups, or whatever source necessary, to aid us toward freedom and health.

5) We established a pattern of life-affirming behaviors, avoiding the sorts of isolation which would make us vulnerable to relapses, creating a foundation of supports which could help us recover from whatever lapses we might have.

6) We considered, acknowledged, and took full responsibility for the harm we had done to others and ourselves in the time of our slavery.

7) We considered and discussed with a neutral adult, the harm we had done, and how we might make restitution or otherwise restore balance, facing the fact that in some situations no direct redress was possible.

Where possible, and using whatever supports necessary, we endeavored to restore balance in those situations and relationships previously harmed by our servitude to addiction or compulsion.

9) Remaining constructively vigilant in our self-regard, we continued to grow strong in health and freedom, eventually becoming a source of support for others seeking to bring their own lives into healthy balance.
A Pagan Alternative to Christian 12 Step Groups

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But paganism still identifies deities as the source of higher power, subjagating the human condition.

The question remains, is there a particular recovery plan that does not base itself in the concept of either poly or monotheistic higher power?

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Is it turning over to the will of God or just letting go? We cannot control the world, Alcoholics and drug addicts have by nature, a control issue. Learning to relinquish control, taking the actions which we know are the right ones to a better health and letting go of the outcome is what it is about. Becoming to realize that the only thing you have control over are your own actions.
There will always be groups like the ones that DD went to and there are many other groups out there, as well, with as many takes on the principles as there are members. Don't like the added B.S.? Then don't go to that group, find another. Don't let the B.S. of one particular group stop you from searching. Hopefully you will never find yourself in the need for a 12 Step Program. For some they are the only lifeline from a very unattractive end.

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I come from a family chock full of recovering or non quite yet recovering alcoholics. My father has been battling with it my entire life. He first tried to "sober up" when I was about 5 and lasted until I was about 12, lapsed in and out, and has now been recovering for another seven successful years. I pretty much was raised in AA meetings, attending every Friday and Sunday nights. My brother is battling it right now. He hit "rock bottom" and thought he sobered up on his own, but really just simply stopped drinking for about two years and is now back and headed right back down the road.

For the members of this forum that are successfully recovering, congrats and I admire you so much. For anyone trying to take the first steps to recovery, I wish you much success! One day at a time.

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