20/20 Tonight - Barbara Walters Visits Transgender Children- Page 3

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:11pm

Rath, I thought the same thing. Wasn't she a dishwasher at a restaurant? I wondered how she could afford her apartment, let alone all that surgery.

I have a friend whose husband is in the very early stages of all of this. I have absolutely no idea how they'll afford it (I don't think they do, either).

Updated On: 4/27/07 at 04:11 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:15pm

Yes, Kringas, she was.

I don't know how people afford it either, and sadly, many really can't.

[blueroses]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:20pm

Perhaps the reassignment surgery is covered by medical insurance?

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:20pm

That's why people go to Thailand. If I'm not mistaken, you can get it done for a few grand there. My friend's husband has mentioned it before, although I think it's an extremely dodgy idea to travel to Asia for surgery, especially a surgery so drastic.

ETA: Blueroses, in most cases (to the best of my knowledge), it's not.

Updated On: 4/27/07 at 04:20 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:23pm

I agree, Kringas.

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:35pm

When I was younger I really identified as female. I was a product of the late 80s-early 90s dominant female children's movies. And the girls always had better adventures.

It was about 13 before I stopped, and discovered I like being a boy, and boys in general.

However, drag is still fun on occasion...

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 4:47pm

I was the same way, husk. When I was young I wanted to be a girl so badly (I'm sure that will surprise no one). I can still remember the hot mess my household was when I said to someone on the school bus that I was going to have a sex change operation when I grew up and my sister overheard and told my parents.

I really have to hand it to parents who are willing to let their children consider that they don't have to ascribe to the expected gender role. I often think I'd have grown up more well adjusted if my folks at had just let me play with dolls and do all the other "girly" things I wanted to do.

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 5:04pm

Same here Kringas--the women at my mom's Methodist group even called me Wonder Woman...lol...I always wanted to be treated like girl, but not sure that I wanted to be a physical girl--even at that young age, I knew there were cultural advantages to being a man.

And Kringas is right--there's a long process involved with reassignment surgery and it's not covered by insurance. My friend Jennifer can't afford the surgery either. Billy of Billy's Bakery sure as hell could tho--she got her a brand new pair of roller skates with all that cupcake dough. (hee hee)

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 7:52pm

I think bree has 2 jobs in transamerica. it was a subtle way of conveying that people who are not rich have to work hard and save up a lot of money to do this. lots of people in her financial situation manage to do it. they wait tables and work multiple jobs. and those jobs are usually crappy--the result of much prejudice in our society. note how the restaurant wouldn't let her be a waitress until after the transition.

i'm not certain where we differ in what we were each trying to say, rath. :) my feelings are just that kids who know at an early age have the option thanks to progress and the internet to see that there is hope for them if they are truly transgendered. kids who are truly just going through a phase will come to that realization as well. were you saying that some kids who are going through a phase might get the wrong idea that they are transgendered?

in any event, I hope kids have access to a counselor of some kind who can let them know the many possibilities and help them deal with things however they currently stand.

and it's prob a good idea that children can't begin transistion until a certain age. I imagine it would be dangerous to begin before puberty finishes? I hope the show deals with that.

[jessica0414]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 8:32pm

oooh...there's no television in my dorm, could someone PM me if there's a link to this later tonight/tomorrow?

I'm torn, because on the one hand I hate the idea that children who know they've been born the wrong gender have to suffer through pubrety and all that; on the other hand, if they're that certain that they are trans, then what's the harm in waiting a couple of years. If they're that sure, then waiting shouldn't matter? But, also, then maybe waiting would be even more painful...I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to say here. In any case, I'm in a gender studies class right now so it would be greatly appreciated if someone could PM me a link to this later :) thanks!

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 8:32pm

My dad is a teacher at a small school for gifted kids and he told me about a student he had several years ago. Apparently, this boy (who was about 9 or 10) was aware on some level that he is gay and said that he felt like he was both a boy and a girl. I had never thought of it like that. I thought that was such a great way to put it, and very prescient for such a young kid.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 8:49pm

that (and some of the other posts on the topic) make me wonder if a lot of gay people go through this phase--because even young children have some sense of attraction and perhaps many gay people think that only girls like boys and vice versa. but clearly some straight people go through these phases.

I went throught this phase in kindergarten myself. but after that time, I had no question in my mind that I was a boy and wanted to be a boy.

and on this topic (and likely to be confusing lol), it can be a slightly different experience for gay transgendered people and straight transgendered people. the straight ones wonder if they might be gay (if not aware of the transgendered part) and the gay ones don't have to question who they are attracted to--just who they themselves are. (and when I say gay and straight here, I mean this based on what their true gender to be.)

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 9:06pm

My five-year old plays with dolls as well as toys traditionally considered "appropriate" to boys. At present, he seems to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the ladies. He registered for kindergarten on Wednesday and was quite shy with the teachers and other school administrators. Then two moms walked in with their daughters, and he made a point of walking over to the two little girls and introducing himself. What a flirt!

But if it's just a phase and he winds up being attracted to boys, that's his business. I'll just do whatever I can to support him and help him through any challenges he faces with the narrow-minded homophobes in the world.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 9:14pm

if only the world had more miss pennyWISEs in it!

a real man isn't afraid to tap into his feminine side. and smart gals know it!

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 9:17pm

Thanks, sweetie. That is very kind of you to say.

I think we should all embrace our feminine AND masculine qualities. You are what you are, so LOVE it!!!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 10:20pm

I love Jazz. She's adorable and sweet. However, I'm freaked out, due to the stories I posted earlier. My childhood friends were just as absolutely adamant that they were boys. I wonder - what if Jazz "grows out" of this as well? Then what happens to her socially? She has to then "come out" as a boy, but at a much more difficult time in life.

[justagirl2]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 10:34pm

Jazz is a good little singer! This is absolutely heartbreaking, and so fascinating at the same time.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 10:37pm

I feel very differently about Riley. A little child who wants to take nail clippers to his genitalia and threatens to jump out a window to his death, is in a much different place than someone like Jazz who reminds me of my friends.

[cooperross]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 11:01pm

'and it's prob a good idea that children can't begin transistion until a certain age. I imagine it would be dangerous to begin before puberty finishes? I hope the show deals with that.'

But you see that's the biggest problem....once puberty is over males voices have changed, adam's apples become prominent, facial and body hair grows..making it a far more difficult process to transition AFTER all of that has happened.

And no, medical insurance usually will not cover any type of gender reassignment procedures, even the hormone therapy.

Updated On: 4/27/07 at 11:01 PM

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 4/27/07 at 11:05pm

i really think riley's parents can and should be doing more for her. she obviously needs some kind of help. when a child that young (or any age for that matter) says "i want to die" that should be a huge red flag for them to get her help. locking the windows is not enough. the other kids seems very happy once they started dressing and publicly identifying as the gender they felt they should be. but riley never seemed happy durring the whole show.
i mentioned it to my mom and she said "well they're probably just uninformed" but i pointed out to her that they went on the internet on support groups for parents of transgender kids. they have access to alot of informatin on the internet. it's out there and not that hard to find.

it was also kind of pissing me off that they still refered to her as "he" when talking about her. but i think that's beacuse i have seen that happen to someone i know and it pisses me off when it happens to her. she's not transgender but she prefers to go by a boy's name instead of the name her parents gave her. a friend of mine who doesn't like her still refers to her by her birth name just to be an ass.

[blueroses]

Posted: 4/28/07 at 12:20am

I'm upset--I passed out two minutes into Riley's segment. I was very moved by seeing Jazz. What a beautiful child. Her parents must be so scared, but they are so amazingly supportive! I loved them for that. Her mom was so candid about her own disappointment (when she said she felt like she lost her baby boy)--it seemed like she felt guilty about it. Whatever hardships Jazz is going to face, how lucky is she to have that kind of unconditional love and acceptance from her parents? It was very touching.
Updated On: 4/28/07 at 12:20 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/28/07 at 3:22am

So, I just watched this, and I cried the whole hour! It was a remarkable program that was both inspiring and heartbreaking.

I was very glad to learn that they can begin transitioning a child as they enter puberty. There are risks involved (breast cancer, etc.) but those risks exist for adults who transition--though probably at a different risk level.

And, I also learned that a mtf can't change their voice very easily and has to have the surgery for the adam's apple--even if they begin before puberty. Worse is what I knew to be true for ftms--it's not really possible to fully create the penis out of the clitoris. In fact, most ftms don't even try. It must be very frustrating.

This is one subject where stem cell research may prove very helpful.

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 4/28/07 at 7:28am

I didn't cry.
I thought it was very well done.
My issue was that when they showed Riley crying, it was out of context, because they didn't show the question that made her cry.
It seems kinda sad, I was also wondering, I used to play with Barbies and I was obsessed with Joan Collins in Dynasty and probably wanted to be her, and I knew I liked men, yet, what if my parents would have told me "Ok, you can be a girl"? haha...I mean, I don't know, it seems odd somehow, Riley's parents let her own a huge snake. It seems like they just give their children anything they wish for?
I am gay, yet I don't know if I'd allow my chidren-that I will never have- be a transgender, and definitly I'd never let them have a snake in my home!
It seems very unnatural, I mean, when they go through puberty, it has to be painful and frustrating.
Also Riley being physically violent toward her sister, what the hell? You want to be a girl to beat up your sister? WTF!
I was very girlie in my childhood and kids picked on me, yet today, I wouldn't want to be a woman AT ALL! But back when I was younger I had moments I wished I were a girl. I mean, although they might not admit it, most gay men wanted to be girls in a certain moment, coming out can be a bitch!

[luvliza89]

Posted: 4/28/07 at 10:59am

When I was younger, I was a total girl.

I loved to dress up as Dorothy and still have the blue gingham dress to prove so. I would put a pillow case over my legs and pretend I was Ariel (this got sadder when my legs no longer fit in said pillow case). I shopped almost only in the girl's toy department. Polly Pocket was my favorite. After I heard "I Enjoy Being A Girl" for the first time, I would go around shout-singing it for about a month. But here I am now, a gay male, and that's what I want to be. I enjoy having a penis. But I guess my feminine side is still there. I sometimes wear eyeliner, but that's mostly because Pete Wentz makes it look so gosh darn hot. But I also feel that I've let my masculine grow, and more then ever since I came out, which I guess is kinda odd.

But honestly, I don't even think of terms of feminie and masculine because who's to say which things are which. Certainly we can't go by what society has deemed traditionally such, because that's just silly. So after all that is said, I just enjoy being me =)

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 4/28/07 at 11:14am

"I am gay, yet I don't know if I'd allow my chidren-that I will never have- be a transgender, and definitly I'd never let them have a snake in my home!"

how would you feel if you were "not allowed" to be gay?