At what point do we move forward?

[Q]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 4:53am

At this point, I really have to wonder.

Here we are, the ‘sentient’ species, and we can’t seem to move past our fears and need for ‘magical’ answers. Our knowledge grows exponentially, and yet our awareness seems less inclined to be motivated by this very knowledge!

WHY, with all we know scientifically, are we still being propelled by our mythological constructs? I certainly understand the desire to know the answers to ‘why’ or ‘how’ – it seems to be the common link amongst us all. And, it explains the rise of ‘religions’, and the hold it has had on many.

BUT, at what point does this become insanity? Honestly, how can we as a species continue to look at what we ourselves have discovered and not have it be the basis for our forward movement?

It took the Catholics four hundred years to grudgingly acknowledge that Galileo was right. Four HUNDRED years! Is that the time schedule we’re going to adhere to? I know that acceleration has picked up steam, but TIME’S A WASTIN’!!!

I bring this up because I have thought for quite some time that this ‘gay’ issue would be the one to ‘tip the scales’. Here we have a clear and concise example of science providing a perspective that flies completely in the face of ‘religious’ ideology. FINE! Let the debates rage. At what point do we, as a GROUP, acknowledge that which IS, as opposed to ‘that which we are told it should be’?

Ultimately, I’m just tired - tired of having to live my very physical existence as something that has to be ‘defended’. I’m too old – I just want to live out the rest of my life without the pain.

I won’t insult those who are true fans by calling myself a ‘Trekker’, but I do wish that Roddenberry’s philosophies had gained a more populist footing. A future devoid of the parameters we seem to have so ardently embraced. THAT’S something I could get behind!

[Calvin]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 10:59am

Socrates knew it a few thousand years ago, Q. People are happier watching the pretty pictures flash inside the warm, safe cave than venturing outside into the wilderness.

Not only have some old mythologies persevered, but relatively new, completely illogical ones -- Mormonism, Scientology, those dudes in the sneakers who thought they'd ride a comet if they died -- keeping popping up and actually attract followers.

A millennium from now, some bozo will find our ancient satire about the flying spaghetti monster, declare it as truth and start it as a religion in earnest. Just watch.

Oh yeah. We'll be long dead by then.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:04am

We move forward AFTER the work is done.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:07am

well said, Calvin AND Diva.....

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:54am

We HAVE moved forward. We ARE moving forward.

If you can't see that, you must be looking backward.

[Q]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 11:59am

PJ - I see that the gay cause continues to move forward, but it seems to be in spite of the overall condition of religious stranglehold.

Diva said 'after the work is done' - well, the work continues to get done, as it has been for quite some time. Scientific discovery builds upon itself exponentially, and yet, the response seems to be to burrow our heads deeper and deeper into the sand.

And Calvin, I love the Parable of the Cave

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 12:10pm

Why? Because they can. Because, as I never tire of saying, butt sex grosses people out, and their specious claim that the bible tells me them so is acceptable enough to people both of extreme AND moderate faith.

And Q, you are right - it moves forward in spite (which, is a great expression to use, since I think spite has a LOT to do with all of this) of the pious, hateful and devout (thank you, Miss Hedwig).

What I've seen in the past week - WEEK - has inspired even the most bitter and cynical part of me. Do I think all the people hungry to challenge, protest, fight, rally, etc know completely what they are doing yet or even uniformly know what they want? No. Even I don't know what I'm doing or know exactly what it is I want, but I am no longer going to take a backseat and wait to see what happens in other states, or listen to those who say that wanting too much too soon is only going to cause a backlash.

We move forward when we all start working together. And I thnk that's starting to happen.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 12:48pm

I'm not so sure that's what it boils down to, Phyllis.

First of all, plenty of straights like butt sex.

And I'm pretty sure that if I asked the supporters of Prop 8 if I could get married to a man if I promised to renounce butt sex that the answer would be no.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 12:55pm

Well, I was speaking hyperbolically, but is what I said that far from all the "love the sinner, hate the sin" claptrap we've been forced to listen to for years? For example, the Catholic "you can be gay, just don't act on it" meme. I realize it isn't specifically about marriage, but I hasten to point out, all this brouhaha isn't specifically about marriage. Or Prop 8. Or California.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 12:59pm

Well, that's exactly my point.

If I were to swear in a court of law never to have sex with my husband if we were allowed to marry, I'm pretty sure the answer from those folks would still be no.

In other words, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is, in my opinion, bullsh!t designed to let these people think they're not hate-filled bigots.

If you took them up on it, I think they would quickly abandon that position.

I've always thought it was about maintaining a power base, and that's the way in which the gay rights struggle IS like the civil rights struggle (though different in other ways).

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 1:05pm

Well, I think you and I pretty much agree on everything. I just like to say "butt sex!" (which is actually kind of funny, because I usually not all that keen on doing it!)

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 1:06pm

I think so too.

(And maybe you're doing it wrong.)

[nygrl232]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 1:12pm

When Obama was elected, I was moved, but not exactly happy. I was anxious and cynical that the Repubs threw the election to him, intending to play dirty tricks and control people through their fears elsewhere. I imagined staged terrorist attacks on American soil to let everyone know how much this world needs the GOP, and active sabotage of the Obama administration. All of that fear was based on how ill equipped most people are to let go and move on to a better way of doing things. One only hopes that these fears are misplaced, that positive examples can be set, that we've learned a lesson.

[Q]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 1:20pm

"maintaining a power base"

That's always been at the core of religion. Using the innate fears that humans have of the unknown to control and manipulate.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/11/08 at 1:27pm

Maybe the question is, "When do we stop moving backward?"