Being Gay and Religion.......your feedback is needed.- Page 3

[Kellie]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 7:42pm

I am sooo glad I wasn't raised religiously!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 7:47pm

For the past few months, I've had my car radio set to Family Radio. Basically, this is because I love choral music as well as pipe organs. These are frequently played on that station. However, the musical interludes are frequently interrupted by "sermonettes" from Funamentalist preachers. They preach strongly about Creationism and come down heavily against "the homosexual life styles". That bothered me quite a bit until I heard the various Scripture readings they intersperse the day with. Good God in Heaven, it's like these people have never read anything before! Every word is accented and there's a tiny pause between these words. Haven't these people been taught to read a whole sentence?

After hearing that, it put everything in perspective. These are people preaching about the Bible, but they're hardly able to read it for themselves.

[The Grovers Corners Yenta2]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 7:56pm

I think it is safe to say that homosexuality did exist when the Bible was written. But perhaps it wasn't talked about. I believe in my heart that G-d embraces all people, and that is a lesson that needs to be learned by these so-called bible scholars who denounce homosexuality. In fact, I don't like the term homosexual at all. Aren't we all sexual beings? The scholars preach the Bible, but certainly don't live it.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:01pm

A friend of mine was on a domestic flight with Pat Robertson. My friend reported that Mr. Robertson never stopped drinking the whole time and was drunk as a skunk when they landed at JFK. You know how I feel about excessive alcoholic consumption!

Updated On: 1/15/06 at 08:01 PM

[Kellie]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:03pm

..?

[The Grovers Corners Yenta2]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:06pm

May Pat Robertson catch an STD from Anita Bryant!

[DBillyP]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:55pm

Yenta, yes, homosexuality most likely did exist at the time the Bible was written. The difference is that the people of that time would not have understood it as a psychosexual orientation in the way that we do today.

As for the Bible, too often people are willing to simply accept what their pastor tells them it says, without searching for the truth on their own. Just last week, my church started a Bible Study called "First Testament for Liberals." It will give us some of the tools necessary to hold our own in discussions with fundamentalists about the Bible.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:02pm

The Catholic Church has taken a bad rap on many issues, but in the past 30 years or so, they've been encouraging us to read the Bible on our own and THINK FOR OURSELVES.

Did I mention that for several years I was the facilitator of a Church-sponsored prayer group for Gays and Lesbians? Yup, the sanction came all the way form the Vatican.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:10pm

Something tells me that sanction might be changing Dollypop ...

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:14pm

Oh no. Gays and Lesbians will always be allowed to pray. They just won't be allowed to become priests.

My pastor has been urging me to become a Deason, but with the present climate at the Vatican I will not do so.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:30pm

Well, for what, exactly, is the Vatican expecting that gays and lesbians pray?!?

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:47pm

Well, we can't pray for the Conversion of Russia. That's what we did in grade school.

I guess we can pray for the poor fellow who got stuck picking up the tab for the Last Supper.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 11:04pm

Thought you might be interested in what a number of leaders from different denominations have to say.

It's long, but there are some lovely sentiments quoted.


QUESTION - "In your opinion, does God regard homosexuality as a sin?"


Baptist: Dr. Stayton - Absolutely not! There is nothing in the Bible or in my own theology that would lead me to believe that God regards homosexuality as a sin. God is interested in our relationships with ourselves, others, the things in our lives, and with God. (Matt. 23:36-40). There is nothing in the mind of God that could be against a loving, sexual relationship, freely entered into, without coercion, among sincere adults whether gay, bisexual, or straight.

Episcopalian: Bishop Spong - Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural," it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypic definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect the rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between the same gender, if that experience calls both partners into a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural, and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.
Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares. "I have looked out on everything I have made and 'behold it (is) very good'." (Gen. 1:31) The word of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

Episcopalian: Bishop wood - No. Our sexual orientation is a given, something we discover about ourselves - some might say "a gift from God." How one relates to others - caring or exploiting - is the source of sin.

Lutheran: Bishop Olson - Of course not. God could not care less about humanly devised categories that label and demean those who do not somehow fit into the norm of those in control. God made all of us and did not make all of us alike. Diversity is beautiful in creation. How we live our lives in either affirming or destructive ways is God's concern, but not being either homosexually oriented or heterosexually oriented is neither a divine plus or minus.
The New Testament is full of verses that speak of the work of Jesus Christ in creating a new unity beyond our divisions. Paul writes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27,2. The Gospel is vastly more inclusive than we often imagine or have been taught.

Judaism: Rabbi Lazar - First of all, I do not know what God thinks. In my opinion, homosexuality is not a sin, but an alternate lifestyle. In my opinion, homosexuality by itself is not immoral. When sex is used to corrupt, for prurient and/or exploitative purposes or selfish reasons to hurt someone else, this is immoral.

Judaism: Rabbi Marder - The God I worship endorses loving, committed, monogamous relationships, regardless of the gender of those involved.

Judaism (Reconstructionist): Rabbi Dr. Teutsh - Homosexuality - as is true of heterosexuality - is a naturally occurring sexual orientation that can be expressed in more ethical and less ethical ways. In itself homosexual love making is not sinful.

Judaism: Rabbi Wilson - No, not so long as the behavior is
a) not obsessive (as would be true, likewise, of heterosexuality)
b) responsible and safe (ditto as above)
c) non-abusive (ditto as above)
d) the manifestation of a loving, respectful relationship (Jewish Bible, Old Testament)

Former Mormon: Dr. McGrath - My sexuality is a God-given state of being which includes natural erotic attractions and desires. In moving from infancy to adulthood, part of my work is to allow myself to experience my eroticism in ways that enable me to discover who I actually am, not who society says I should be. I believe that the Creator of our natural erotic attractions, whether they are for opposite or same sex persons, views our eroticism as an intrinsic and beautiful part of who God intended us to be. God did not intend there would be one way of being sexual. Even among heterosexual people, there is no "right" way to be sexual. Our uniqueness comes from the creativity of God at the most basic level. I believe God is pleased when we respond to our unique form of sexuality in ways that are life giving. I believe that it is life giving when sexual relationships reflect a high degree of mutuality, love, and justice.

Presbyterian: Dr. Edwards - God does not regard homosexuality as a sin any more than heterosexuality. Sin is lack of respect or love for God; it is lack of love or respect for other persons. Whether gay or straight, therefore, one may sin against God or others. But God forgives us when we sin and strengthens us in resisting sin. We are led by God's forgiving love to become more respectful and loving toward God and toward others, even those we don't "like".

Presbyterian: Rev. Holfelder - No, I don't think that God regards homosexuality as a sin. I believe that one's sexual preference is first and foremost a matter of biology (creation) and only secondarily a matter of choice (responsibility). Since I also believe that all God creates is good, I conclude that human sexuality (not a matter of choice for anyone) is good, whether that sexual expression be heterosexual or homosexual.

Roman Catholic: Sister Ford - Two truths are especially relevant in thinking this through. First we have a theological point. God, the one who has made all of creation, loves and cherishes all creatures without exception. Second, modern psychology shows us that homosexual orientation is inborn as some think, or acquired very early, as others say. How then could an all-loving God possibly violate Divine nature and regard homosexuals as "sinners"?

Roman Catholic: Sister Gramick - God has created people with romantic and physical attractions to the same sex, as well as those with attractions to the opposite sex. Many, if not most, people, we are discovering, have both kids of attractions in varying degrees. All of these feelings are natural and are considered good and blessed by God. These feelings and attractions are not sinful. Most Catholic moral theologians now hold that homogenital behavior, as well as heterogenital behavior, is good and holy in God's sight when it is an expression of special and unique love which one person has for another. Bot homosexual and heterosexual genital expression can be sinful if they are manipulative, dishonest, or unloving actions.

Roman Catholic: Rev. Nugent - I do not believe that God regards homosexuality as a "sin" if homosexuality means the psychosexual identity of lesbians or gay persons, which we know from contemporary scientific studies is within the boundaries of healthy, human psychological development, and which seems to be as natural for some people as heterosexuality is for others. If homosexuality means the emotional, intimate bonding in same-gender relationships of love and friendship, I believe that since God is love, where there is authentic love, God is present.
Where God is present, there can be no sin. If homosexuality means same-gender erotic, physical expressions of union and pleasure, the possibility of personal sin exists in homosexuality-as it does in heterosexuality-depending on the interplay of three factors including the physical behavior itself and its meaning for the person, the personal motives and intentions of the person acting, and the individual and social consequences or results of the behavior. For many people, sexual behavior which is exploitive, coercive, manipulative, dishonest, selfish or destructive of human personhood is sinful; for all people "sin" means freely acting contrary to one's deeply held moral or ethical convictions, whether these come form organized religion or a personally developed value system. In speaking of the "sinfulness" of same-gender genital expression, the Roman Catholic Bishops of Washington say that "…no one except Almighty God can make certain judgments about the personal sinfulness of acts (The Prejudice Against Homosexuals and the Ministry of the Church, Washington State Catholic Conference, 1983.)"

Unitarian Universalist: Dr. Schultz - I do not believe that God regards homosexuality as a sin. In the first place, of course, I do not believe in an anthropomorphic God who defines or delineates sinful behavior. But even if I did, I cannot believe that such a God would reject any of His/Her children on the basis of the affectional orientations. If He/She did, such a God would not be one to whom I would want to pay homage.

United Church of Christ: Dr. Lebacqz - What God DOES regard as sin is oppression, injustice, persecution, disrespect for persons. This sin, then, is homophobia, gay-bashing, discriminatory legislation toward lesbians and gays, refusal to include lesbian/gay/bisexual people into our churches and communities. To force ANY people, whether for reasons of race, age, or sexual orientation, into a "ghetto"-this is a sin.

United Church of Christ: Dr. Nelson - I am convinced that our sexuality and our sexual orientations, whatever they may be, are a gift from God. Sexual sin does not reside in our orientations, but rather in expressing our sexuality in ways that harm, oppress, or use others for our own selfish gratification. When we express ourselves sexually in ways that are loving and just, faithful and responsible, then I am convinced that God celebrates our sexuality, whatever our orientation may be.

United Methodist: Dr. Cobb - Surely being attracted to persons of the same sex is not, as such, a sin. But of course how we act in our attractions, towards whichever sex, if often sinful. The ideal is to be responsible and faithful rather than self-indulgent. Unfortunately, society does not encourage responsible and faithful relations with person of the same sex. That makes the situation of the homosexual very difficult.

United Methodist: Bishop Wheatley - Of course not! The preponderance of evidence now available identifies homosexuality to be as natural a sexual orientation for a significant percentage of persons as heterosexuality is the natural sex orientation for the majority of person. Homosexuality is an authentic condition of being with which some persons are endowed (a gift of God, if you please), not an optional sexual life-style which they have willfully, whimsically or sinfully chosen. Certainly one's sexuality-heterosexual or homosexual-may be acted out in behaviors that are sinful: brutal, exploitative, selfish, superficial. But just as sure, one's homosexual orientation as well as another's heterosexual orientation may be acted out in ways that are beautiful: tender, considerate, mutual, responsible, loyal, profound.

[The Grovers Corners Yenta2]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 11:10pm

A few years ago a local synagogue hired an assistant Rabbi who was a Lesbian. Remember, this is New England which is still a bit puritanical in it's thinking. The headline in a paper read: Local Synagogue Hires Homosexual Rabbi. A young girl who was a member of that synagogue wrote a letter to the paper wuestioning the use of this headline. She wanted to know why when the senior Rabbi was hired why wasn't there a headline that said: Local synagogue Hires Heterosexual Rabbi. HAts off to this girl. I do not define a person by their sexuality.....to me we are all people deserving of the same respect.

[cturtle]

Posted: 1/16/06 at 12:36am

justaguy, thanks so much for posting that! i remember reading these quotes on a webpage TEN years ago when i first came out. i found these words to be encouraging indeed! i've always remembered RABBI LAZAR's opening words: "first of all, i do not know what god thinks." touche! there are an awful lot of people in the world today who seem to know EXACTLY what god thinks, and that strikes me as incredibly egotistical.

[jimmirae]

Posted: 1/16/06 at 8:12am

I have to make a frank observation here please. IF I were the one to look around and take account, I'd honestly have to decalre that the Lesbians MUST be "God's Chosen People", that is, If He/She, God or Goddess or Both actually made a choice. Think about it.
By the way, A BIG Thumbs Up to Dollypop for turning down the position as Deacon! I always admire those who walk the walk being as how it is so easy to do otherwise and talk is still cheap. Bravo Dollypop!