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#26

re: Bush's Popularity

MJR - I still think there are wide disparities in the kinds of education (either in terms of quality or quantity) that are available to certain demographics in this country - and, for me, that is not acceptable.
#27

re: Bush's Popularity

But women should still be considered property and not allowed to vote? Don't forget that was the beginning of the civil rights era.
Affirmative Action is flawed but can you name a program that isn't?
#28

re: Bush's Popularity

**I was just stating my opinion on AA, because when people talk about education opportunities, it gets linked to minorities very often.

Yes, having the money distributed evenly will work.

But I believe that what's wrong with many schools, opportunity wise, lies in the way that the school runs.

I heard that some crazy school put Jewel's and Tupac's books on the summer reading list. Hello- sit through Catcher in the Rye and just live with it! I never got that. And I have been to public school and Catholic school, and I can say that in public school, discipline isn't present (and no, my private school isn't *that* strict, but there is discipline). I don't think that throwing millions of dollars is the only way to solve the problem, or even the most effective way, in the end.

There need to be teachers who really love to teach WITH strong teaching skills, a tough curriculum, etc.

--

EDIT: And affirmative action is FLAWED to the point where it is absolutely ridiculous.

Updated On: 7/31/04 at 05:28 PM

#29

re: Bush's Popularity

Guenevere - unfortunately, the experience I have here in southern California (my partner is a teacher and all our social contacts are in education) is that it all boils down to the support coming from the home. And the reality is, as sad as it is, that the lower the class status, the less involvement or interaction the child gets from home. Without that support, it becomes very difficult to move forward. MJR is correct that individual determination is the key - but not having that sense of will developed during childhood seriously impedes the ability of the child to grow.
#30

re: Bush's Popularity

I'll just blame everything on the generation. No government needed there! I think that as the generations go on, it's going to get worse. I'm lucky that my parents cared for me (yes, both worked full time jobs and still managed to raise me well) and took interest in my schoolwork and everything.

Seeing young kids today just shocks me to no end. I was shopping at the mall today, and saw a 9 year old girl with an oversized bra, tight tank top, and skirt which revealed all underneath. It totally made me sick. I suddenly felt like I was 80. re: Bush's Popularity
#31

re: Bush's Popularity

"Like what? Can we have a 'for instance' here, please?"


Oh God, this is going to sound so bad but I can't remember. It happened a few times between the Today Show and Good Morning America. But I would like to nicely check myself out of this discussion...
What is Broadway? A street? Some say it's a street. Some say it is the best street in the world. Others think its terrible. That's the beauty of it, it's terribly beautiful. Some hate it and don't know why. Others love it and don't know why. That's what makes it so wonderful, it's a mystery.
#32

re: Bush's Popularity

broadwayguy2---

I live in Highland Park, a wealthy dominantly white (hell...practically all white) suburb just 4 minutes north of downtown Dallas.

When we put up Kerry signs you wouldn't beleive the things people do. It's despicable. Even thought the enitre neighborhood is overrun with Bush/Cheney signs, they say it is wrong to put up the Kerry/Edwards signs. Talk about hypocricy.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#33

re: bush's popularity

gee, sticky, i live in nyc and you ought to see what the people here do to bush signs even though there are kerry signs everywhere. and these are the same people who scream about censorship and cry for free speech. talk about hypocrisy.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#34

re: bush's popularity

LadyGuenevere- Certain people in every generation thinks that the next generation is a bunch of depraved cretins. And they're wrong. Every generation has its share of ignorant, rude, and idiotic children, but there's also plenty who are smart, responsible, and ambitious. Just the fact that those "damn kids" today don't act the same way you did as a child doesn't make them bad.

And hon, if we're that bad, it's because of the adults in our lives. So blame the older generation, not us.
#35

re: bush's popularity

MJR - Your point is why I have been very interested in following the Bill Cosby saga. While he is addressing the black community primarily (and I fully understand why he does) I seriously hope that his message can start to bleed into all society in general. It's ALL about taking personal responsibility - and that seems to be something that has gone right out the window.
#36

re: bush's popularity

"bush's popularity"

non-existant
#37

re: bush's popularity

Unfortunately, BStar2B - he is very popular with many people - just obviously not with many of this crowd re: bush's popularity
#38

re: bush's popularity

d*nm
#39

re: bush's popularity

""bush's popularity"

non-existant "

Yes, I am SO feeling the love here. re: bush's popularity

But it really isn't common in theatre circles at all, I've only met one other Republican in all the shows I've worked with. Lucky for me, eh?

Plum: Oh yes, the adults are a different story. Definitely. As I said, I was lucky enough to have parents that really care for me and take interest in my life- it's sad to see other people who didn't have that in their lives.

Updated On: 7/31/04 at 11:30 PM

#40

re: bush's popularity

Did Kerry actually say he was going to clean the air in Harlem because 25% of the children living there have asthma? Can't Sen. Hillary Clinton do anything about the air? Kerry the Populist will promise anything to get elected. The only thing you can be sure he would do, if elected, is raise your taxes.
#41

re: bush's popularity

You're right. Kerry does want more tax money. He wants to do such atrocious things as getting rid of tax loopholes for corporations. Horrible, I know.

But you know what? I have news for you. If you want to manage a country of this size and run two simultaneous wars, you need buttloads of money. And believe it or not, that money comes from...wait for it...TAXES! Whodathunkit?

And look where Bush's financial policies have gotten us. I won't blame him entirely for the recession, but the record national debt? His fault. Completely.
#42

re: bush's popularity

Plum you have a dual citizenship in Israel and the US, right?
To me, Bush is the best friend Israel has ever had. Am I wrong?
I am assuming you are not Palestinian.
Regarding taxes, I invest in the stock market and I am concerned about capital gains taxes. I am not a huge corporation.

Updated On: 7/31/04 at 11:52 PM

#43

re: bush's popularity

the record defecits comment is a bit disingenuous, plum. while it is the largest defecit in plain numbers, it's only 3.8% of the economy. reagan's ran around 6%.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#44

re: bush's popularity

We need more people to invest in the Stock Market Thirdrowcenter because I need to keep my job and I'd like to get a raise this year, something I haven't gotten in the past couple of years.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. Ralph Waldo Emerson
#45

re: bush's popularity

I think Jon Stewart hit the nail on the head when he questioned why more people weren't all up in arms about the war. I mean it comes out that the "reason" we went to war was false, and everyone is just ignoring that. We impeach a guy for having a little oral sex ... but sending our country to war over an oil fued and using 9/11 as your excuse is A-OK by us. Right.
#46

re: bush's popularity

One thing you do gotta give Kerry - he is a far better public speaker than Bush. I mean, those soundbites are great! How did it go - "We should no longer say God is on our side. We should pray that WE are on GOD'S side". Nice. Very catchy.

Over this side of the Pond, Clinton is still higher rated than Bush.

As for hypocrisy, don't get me started on the Israel/Palestinian thing. Still, at least when you guys find out you were fed false information the head of the CIA is fired. We PROMOTED our head of intelligence! (*Goddamn Blair and his cronies*)
#47

re: bush's popularity

The Israel/Palestinian thing is hypocrisy? Israel should listen to what Germany and France says about the wall protecting themselves from homicide bombers, after all, Germany has always been supportive of the Jews.
#48

re: bush's popularity

I was rather thinking about the fact that for 20 years American goverments and manufacturers funded and armed the IRA. Because THEY weren't terrorists(!). Anyone heard of Omagh? There are certain times where it appears that it's one rule for "the allies" and another for the rest of the world - e.g why must countries such as Iran and North Korea get rid of their nuclear weapons but not Israel? Similarly, why is it wrong for the Palestinians to use guerrilla warfare (because that's essentially what it is) but not for the IRA to be sold weapons which were to be put to the same purpose? I'm sure if the Palestinians had military aircraft they'd fight the Israelis on a level playing field. But that isn't the case. I do not excuse what they do, but I can see and understand the reasons why. Who knows? In their situation, if I was desperate enough, I may do the same. Freedom is the most important privilege in the world.

I'd have more respect for the "powers that be" in the US if they turned round and put the same pressure on the Israelis to disarm as they do on the Palestinians - after all, Israel is SUPPOSED to be a secular nation without a government based on religion.

As for the Holocaust - it's no excuse to ghetto another people for their religion. It should in fact have resulted in the opposite. You'd have thought that the Jews would be the FIRST to advocate living in peace with other races and using the negotiating table rather than military aircraft and bulldozers. Neither can you use Hitler as an excuse for Israel to reject the advice of 21st-century Germany. Or do you insist on blaming the son for the wrongs of the father? To me, culpability isn't hereditary. The current government is neither facist or racist, so why is its opinion irrelevant because of the wrongs of a previous regime?

By the way, this isn't just me saying this as a Christian. When I went on a rally at Uni calling for tougher action on Israel, people from all races, religions, and nations were there - including Jews and Americans. We all had one thing in common - we wanted BOTH sides of the argument subjected to the same rules and conditions. Fair enough. Call for disarmament - but for both sides. Not just one.

To be fair, an easier stance on the Palestinians may well go a great way to reconciling the more extreme Arab nations to the coalition.

But, knowing how arguments such as this go down like a lead balloon on here (for some reason, calls for equality in this situation are viewed as support for terrorism - which I shall never be able to understand) I'll step out of this discussion.
#49

re: bush's popularity

from hamas's charter:

Article Eight : The Slogan of the Hamas
Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences [Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: “Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.”

Article Seventeen: The Role of Muslim Women
The Muslim women have a no lesser role than that of men in the war of liberation; they manufacture men and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation.

from the plo's charter:

Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.

Article 15: The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine. Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation - peoples and governments - with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine. It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.

Article 21: The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.

yep, that's all about peace and coexistence, ain't it? nothing about eliminating israel at all. i can't see why anybody would find any fault with people whose representatives call for the complete destruction and elimination of another nation. and if they had planes and tanks they'd get their a**es handed to them again just the combined arab armies did did in '67 and '73.

when palestinians are calling for a true peaceful coexistence and not the destruction of israel in both english and arabic, instead of calling for peace in english and calling for war in arabic, then there might be hope. until then, there will be death.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective

Updated On: 8/1/04 at 01:06 PM

#50

re: bush's popularity

Papa, you bring out the salient questions. Establishing peace in Iraq -- and (cover your ears, Pops) nation-building in the Middle East -- will never succeed outside of the larger context of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The United States has an obligation as well as serious national security interests to foster the geopolitical conditions for a resolution.
Stop worrying about what I'm doing -- focus instead on what you're eating.

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