Church learns vet was gay, cancels memorial — Page 3

I know this perhaps treads into too personal an inquiry, but I'd really like to know where you're from with this experience. Where I dealt with the Church in Virginia and the Mid-West, excommunication was and is taken very seriously. But that's only in the US, again. In other places already mentioned, excommunication will usually lead to ostracization by family and friends, as well.

As to your other comments, you interestingly substitute 'Christian' and 'Catholic' interchangeably - and that is not where I'm coming from at all. Catholicism is a very distinct thing - which they themselves reminded the world very recently.

Do I believe that the intrinsic values of Christianity you speak of are valid? Absolutely. But I don't think they are what is encoded in the current Dogma of the Catholic religion.

I actually don't see Christian and Catholic as being interchangeable. The teachings of Jesus in the New Testament (such as the acceptance I talked about) I consider to be more of a "Christian" teaching in that, if you follow what Jesus says in the Bible thats where it comes from, as different from a distinctly Catholic doctrine like transubstantiation.

My excommunication views are sort of a combination between the general fact that I was never taught of excommunication being something that was to be feared, though of course I was taught about it and it being a real thing, but it also (for myself personally) is impacted by the fact that I study medieval European history. Its impossible to study that without encountering excommunication and church policy perpetually. To go along with that it is also impossible to study it without being made acutely aware of the political motivations behind excommunication far outweighing the religious ones. You can't study history without being able to appreciate the secular view of given things, particularly medieval history where the Church was such a dominant presence in every aspect of most western European (and on and off in the Levant) cultures. Well, you can study history without it, but it wouldn't make you a very well rounded historian if you couldn't look at both sides.


...oh, and its not a big deal, I'm from New York (though not the city).

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bythesword - I wouldn't necessarily relegate the connection betweeen religion and politics to the Middle Ages. Especially now.

And I understand YOUR position concerning the difference you see between Christian and Catholic - I'm just not sure Rome does.

A quote I posted in the "Italians protest at anti-gay out burst" thread seems to be needed here as well;

"First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me."


by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

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Updated On: 8/12/07 at 03:50 PM

What happened to the whole "Love thy neighbor as thyself" stuff?

I hate people. Truly.

"This decision was not based on hate, or discrimination, but upon principle and policy," Mr. Simons said Sunday to cheers from the congregation. "We cannot glorify homosexuality as a lifestyle."

Brian Ware, 32, said he was satisfied with the pastor's explanation after hearing it Sunday morning. "The Bible does say it's wrong," he said. "You wouldn't go to someone's house who doesn't smoke and smoke there."

The saga continues.

"With all the negative e-mail we are receiving right now, it seems that the homosexual community, God bless them all, are very organized," said the Rev. Gary Simons, referring to the reaction to the church's decision, which has generated news coverage around the world and lighted up gay and religious blogs.

"Before, when you type in 'Gary Simons' and 'High Point Church' in a Google search, you know, you could find us. But now, you really could find us."

Well, God Bless their selfless little hearts!

Foster, I don't think anyone who is Catholic is saying because we have not been taught this it does not exist. I'm well aware a lot of Catholics feel this way. I don't agree with this at all, and I think it's absolutely ridiculous. But I don't think this way of thinking is non-existent. Don't put words in someone's mouth.

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For anyone who wants to continue the discussion of the current pope's gay bashing, I suggest moving the discussion to this thread.
Pope Reverses Vatican II

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