Church learns vet was gay, cancels memorial — Page 2

I agree with you there, bythesword.

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That's beyond inhuman!!!

That was a really good synopsis of Catholicism, bythesword. Good job.

I don't necessarily agree with all of everything on here, but it was still a very informative piece.

As the brilliant Datalounge Spike put it, they had to be TOLD somebody named Cecil Sinclair was gay?

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bythesword, I honestly didn't intend to attack Catholicism, and I know that I didn't. You just decided to write me a book. So now I'll write you one.

My post was stating the fact that I just don't see the difference between one religion and the next. While you may have been raised one way, you need to get with the times. You can't live in the past. The truth TODAY is that religion as a whole is more often used as a weapon to take away human beings' basic rights than to spread love and acceptance regardless of whether someone is gay or purple. You can't live in a bubble and ignore that, especially if you are going to label yourself a Catholic. You can't pick and choose which people you are going to associate with. The pope is in charge of dispensing the hatred, and you're ALL under his reign. Am I incorrect? Is the pope not the head honcho of Catholicism?

I am a human being. You are a human being. That is the bottom line. We are all a part of HUMANITY and we all need to respect each other's EXISTENCES as human beings. When people start placing labels on themselves above that of "human being," -- labels like "Catholic" -- that is where the hatred and exclusion begins.

I don't care what religion it is; Catholicism, Judaism, Islam. Each and every religion is a different set of hateful ideologies. Period. If you can't get enough out of humanity in and of itself, you may need to spend more of your time with different human beings, learning about one another as human beings, instead of fighting to exclude yourself from those who spew hate and also happen to wear the label of "Catholic" on their heads.

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Updated On: 8/11/07 at 10:48 PM

By invoking Catholicism, are you referencing the worldwide religion that legitimately claims 1/6th of the world's population as its members? The one headed by the elected ascendent to 'Peter's throne', Pope Benedict? The one who just announced through Papal decree that Catholicism is the only true religion, even amongst other practicing Christian Sects?

I'm so thrilled that your own personal experience of Catholicism has been so . . . enlightened. I can assure you it is NOT the general expression of the world-wide cult.

If you want to seriously deal with the rational reaction of negativity to this dictatorship which has enormous world-wide influence, then you have to deal with the WHOLE, not your own little enlightened corner. I can assure you that the WHOLE would drop your corner like a hot potato if it really felt like those philosophies could spread.

I'm sorry, you can go against me as much as you'd like but I will never see the point in making vast generalizations about large groups of people. I would never blame an entire group for the actions of its leader when I disagree with them.

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Not to mention however forbidden.

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bythesword - don't be discouraged! The experience you're having is a sign of hope.

But honestly, the Catholic Sect is officially acknowledged as encompassing no less than 1/6th of the planet's population, so the effect of that group AS A WHOLE is what most people are concerned with.

The American Catholics have stood outside the mainstream for some time - at least SOME of them - but they have been roundly chastised for their stance (up to and including removal from 'the fold'.) Can that voice make a difference here? Sure - but mostly on a very individual basis.

For most, it is still the will of Rome that dictates, and that clock has been moving backward, not forward.

I'm sorry if it offends you to be associated with that which exists as it is - but it DOES. And your personal experience notwithstanding, the Church's CHOSEN reputation is outside of what you know and apparently cherrish.

bythesword - that's why I referred to you as the 'hope'

But, reality is, by identifying as Catholic, you associate yourself with a strict and established doctrine. That you don't subscribe to all the tenets is your choice, but it does raise the question "Are you really Cathoic?"

I can't count the number of very real friendships with priests that I've had to abandon because we just couldn't come to terms with the fact that they believed one thing yet represented another. And these were some of the kindest, most educated men I've known.

BUT, the name counts - and affiliation SHOULD mean compliance. Otherwise, why use the name?

I would say that I am really Catholic because the beliefs that I hold were all beliefs which have been encouraged and reinforced by my Catholic parish, my Catholic schooling (which was done mostly by priests, Dominican sisters, and Franciscan brothers), and personal interactions outside of school with religious figures. It isn't that I've stepped outside the religion and chosen to believe these things on my own. If someone wanted to say I was part of a more liberal Catholic sect, thats one thing though I know the people who taught me this didn't see themselves as such. They see themselves as Catholic priests/brothers/sisters who are teaching within the faith. On a personal level I will always see myself as really Catholic because it was all passed to me by people who are a part of the (I have no idea what the word would be for this, really) "structure" of the Church.


...and to think, I'm certified to teach the religion to other people if I want to. Someone somewhere is regretting giving me that certification now.

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Oops, we posted at the exact same time DG.

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Excommunication? Really? Excommunication is, and always has been, a political tool more than a religious one. Granted, back in the day, and particularly the 12th century and 13th centuries where it was very popular to use, it hurt a lot of people because of excommunication of a monarch or lord putting a stop to all religious services, including death rights, funerals, weddings, etc. within that person's realm. Nowadays while excommunication is not something I could like to have happen to myself, I don't see it being nearly as far reaching in its implications as it used to be.

Anyway, end random rant on excommunication here.

As for what I said about teaching within the faith, I don't think that saying that loving everyone includes literally everyone and teaching acceptance should be considered going outside of the faith. That is a basic Christian teaching and teaching that you can't limit its application doesn't actually go against Christian doctrine. As far as I know those who taught me were teaching what they believed Catholicism to teach, and to them it would be seen as within Catholicism.

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