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Clinton: Pledged Delegates up for Grabs — Page 2

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#27

clintonistas secretly bring rove in as hillary's brain, bill furious

Posted: 3/27/08 at 1:46pm

Art, I'm sorry. But you are absolutely not holding yourself to an objective stance on all this. EVERY point you make is spun to support Obama. That's fine if that's how you want to play it. Nothing wrong with that at all. But don't pretend you are being absolutely fair and objective.

If you TRULY want to talk "will of the people", then you have to

1. Include Michigan and Florida in the discussion.

2. Allow the remaining states to vote.

Saying "he won the most states" is a silly response. That doesn't count for ****. In many states, Hillary won the most counties-Obama still won the state because he won the most PEOPLE.

Obama does not have a mandate over Hillary. Yes, he is ahead. But it's not over til. it's. over.

PLEASE let Gore take over.

johnraymondbarker.com
#30

clintonistas secretly bring rove in as hillary's brain, bill furious

Posted: 3/27/08 at 1:59pm

The only thing that was "changing the rules" was trying to have Florida and Michigan revote.

And, no, I had nothing to do with those rules being set.

But, anyway, whatever any of us can say to Hillary's motivations (obviously not altruistic), the people wanted the revote. OBAMA AGREED. But then did nothing.

And the ONLY reason you hold that stance is because it benefits Obama.

Shocking.

johnraymondbarker.com
#31

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 2:12pm

Jerby, I've decided I'm not going to engage with you on this subject. Telling me I'm "pretending to be fair and objective" and dismissing "EVERY point" I make as spin, or that something I said is "silly" or "bull****" does not seem like productive discussion to me. And since it's clear, to me at least,that we'll never agree on this, why chew on each other? I've said what I had to say. And I sincerely believe every word of it.
Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.

Updated On: 3/27/08 at 02:12 PM

#33

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 2:15pm

and the only reason you hold your stance is because it doesn't benefit hilary. SHOCKING. She can't win without changing the rules. You can;t get halfway through the game and suddenly go, "well ****, i don't like these rules anymore. I mean, i know i agreed with them before, and said i would stand by them, but that was when my getting the nomination was a foregone conclussion, now that I actually have to work for it I don't really want to, i'd rather just make a couple switches and go back to how it was when no one else was even being considered as a possible nominee."
#34

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 2:18pm

But you are wrong there, Liver.

I do want a fair game. I do care more about fair elections than what will get my person elected. I do hold the whole process up to a standard.

At least I'm not telling the other player to quit while I'm ahead even though the game is far from over.

Too bad BWW wasn't around in 2000. It would likely be a JOY to be able to bump up some threads from then and see just how consistent some of you are.
johnraymondbarker.com
#35

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 2:33pm

I do care more about fair elections than what will get my person elected.


that's rich.

The election HAS been fair. The DNC Set forth rules regarding dates of primaries. The Florida democratic heads and the Michigan democratic heads chose to IGNORE THOSE RULES. Does that suck for the people of florida and michigan, YES, it does, and you know what they should do, ELECT NEW LEADERS in their next state election. But it is NOT THE FAULT OF OBAMA that those state parties chose to ignore the rules.

Also, Clinton, for months has been palying BOTH SIDES OF THIS very hard. She said she'd stick to the rules and wouldn't campaign in Mich/Flor knowing that the delegates wouldn't count, yet, she went to both states to celebrate wins and has been trying to reverse the rules and decisions she agreed to previously.

#37

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:39pm

Michigan democratic heads chose to IGNORE THOSE RULES.

Not true. A statute passed by the Republican-controlled Michigan state legislature changed the date, screwing Michigan residents of BOTH parties.

The GOP, however, decided quickly that Michigan Republicans would simply be deprived of half of their convention delegates.

Dean decided to let the decision wait till the Rules Committe could meet at the convention in August.
#38

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:45pm

And in Florida, it was also the Republican-controlled state legislature. From a May 4, 2007 NY Times article:

===

Under Democratic Party rules, the candidates can also be penalized, losing the delegates they won in the rule-breaking state.

But Florida officials scoffed at those threats, calling the conventions little more than a formality.

“We have people who get invited to a big party where they drop a balloon and people wear funny hats,” said [Republican] Marco Rubio, speaker of the State House of Representatives. “But they don’t have any role to play.”

“At the end of the day,” said Mr. Rubio, a Republican, “the truth of the matter is that the nominee of either party is going to want to make sure they have not offended the big donors and the biggest activists in the most important state in the country that is electorally available.”

===

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.
Marco Rubio, speaker of the Florida House of Representatives.

Seeking an Edge, Florida Changes Its Primary Date

Updated On: 3/27/08 at 03:45 PM

#41

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:54pm

I never liked the idea of any states being excluded.

It didn't seem to be imperative to this race because no one expected it to be this close. But now that it is, we need to hear from ALL voters.

I dont want it to be an unfair revote. I want it to be fair. It's likely with all of obama's momentum that it could help prove his case to the supers. Why are you and obama afraid of a revote? Because there's a big chance that Florida and Michigan want Hillary? Wouldnt that then be the true will of the people? Isn't that the point of this?

Because like it or not, not having a revote hurts obama. Every undecided superdelegate is going to consider those states in her column, flawed or not.

And if obama is the nominee, those two states will likely go to mccain.

So you can scream about rules, but they have proven to be very flawed rules. And finding a fair solution would have been a good thing.
johnraymondbarker.com
#42

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:54pm

". She can't win without changing the rules.
And. Neither. Can. Barack. "

PJ thats not true, all either of them needs are the superdelegates. barack isnt trying to change any rules or change anything that had already been agreed on.

i dont fauly hillary for trying to capture the superdelegates, thats totally fair and she needs them to win (just like obama). i have a different opinion on the whole "pledged delegates" situation, because while still "playing by the rules", its considerably more... bold. but again, like i said, thats not changing the rules so i dont fault her.

but the michigan florida thing, that is a different situation. i'd love to see those delegates seated so the people can be heard, but hillary IS trying to change something she signed off on several months ago when she thought the nomination was all but hers.

i do consider that to be "trying to change the rules"... because she needs it to make her case to the superdelegates. like jerby said, you cant blame the candidate for playing hard and trying to win... its politics... but i definitely see it as trying to change the rules...

Updated On: 3/27/08 at 03:54 PM

#43

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:57pm

"Why are you and obama afraid of a revote?"

jerby, you sound like hillary giving a press conference on CNN... the problem i have with that is, you said. "you cant fault hillary for trying to get a revote in MI and FL because shes trying to play the game and win..."

if obama really is trying to stop MI and FL so that it benefits him, isnt that the same thing? he's playing to win. right?
#44

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 3:59pm

pab, its the same hypocricy coming from jerby and pal that's been coming from them for A LONG TIME

St. Hilary is infalible and thusly nohting she does is wrong, even if it involves lying on several occasions about running from snipper fire with her daughter and Sinbad in tow.
#45

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 4:01pm

"Reuters: Somebody forgot to tell Hillary Clinton the Democratic presidential race is over and Barack Obama won."
Ouch.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#47

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 4:04pm

liver, i try and see both sides because i know that for me as a big obama supporter it might be harder for me to see things from the clinton perspective. same for a clinton supporter to see it from the obama side. so i try to be as reasonable as i can. sometimes i agree, sometimes i dont, but at the end of the day we all agree that we're here to fight John McBush. right?

anyhow... i said my peace... :) i guess we'll all agree to disagree...

Updated On: 3/27/08 at 04:04 PM

#48

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 4:04pm

I live in NYC, and honey, bitter queen coming from you? REALLY? REALLY?


and nice job COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FACT that pab just countered your entire argument by using your own logic against you.
#49

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 4:14pm

I have nothing to be bitter about. :)

I didn't refute what he said, did I? He made a fair point. But keep trying.

Of course, I see obama supporter's side. (it's not like you guys dont ram it down our throats) I like both candidates (save both of their "misspeaking", which I do not like) I have chosen the side of what is fair. This is why I want the revote. I do not want those delegates seated as is.

But, no. I'm a hypocrite.
johnraymondbarker.com
#50

Everytime papa changes a thread heading, a Republican dies.

Posted: 3/27/08 at 4:26pm

I'm trying to see both sides too - but am having a hard time.
I am pissed that my vote won't count and I'm mad that Obama's lawyers put enough road blocks to make sure that there would be no revote in either state.
When Obama gets the nomination , McCain will be able to court the Clinton voters in both states. He will be able to show that Obama was the one who stopped the revote. Any guess on how that will play out?
Quite frankly, I am having a hard time seeing how the Democratic party will become unified by the time the general election comes around.

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