Do you find the phrase 'straight-acting' offensive?- Page 2

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/19/08 at 8:33am

"You're acting SAD today," as if all sad people acted exactly the same way.

Honestly, to me this argument is a strange thing to get bunched up about. People (yes ALL of us) have preconceptions about behavior patterns, whether it's gay, straight, sad, happy, nervous or angry. There are certain common traits that communicate certain things. So what?

I'm much more offended by the words "queer" and "queen" to describe my sexual orientation. I don't embrace them or accept them as anything other than derrogatory. ESPECIALLY "queer."

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/19/08 at 12:08pm

While I get your point, b12b, and can semi agree, I think there's a greater issue at stake. I think it's more in the department of "acting white" or "acting black" or "acting Jewish" than an emotional state.

Intent is certainly key. For some, it may be as harmless as emotional state. But, we live in a society where certain words and phrases possess quite an electrical charge.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/19/08 at 12:17pm

We certainly do. And I get your point too.

I guess I'm just not offended by it.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/19/08 at 12:20pm

I definitely find it baffling...I don't understand it at all...

And like others, it always confuses me that the ones that usually claim it are the most feminine of them all...

I don't see anything wrong with being the way you are. And I happen to find many effeminate men very attractive. The ones that aren't ashamed to be who they are...I guess I have other things I'm looking for in a man than worrying about them being butch enough...

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:16am

I think there's two sides to this issue:

One is that it's about gay guys not wanting to be seen as "gay" by dating or hanging out with some big ol flamer. That is self-hatin'...

BUT there are also ALOT of gay guys who feel like they have to "put on" and "act gay" to be gay. I once felt like I had to camp it up to be me, but after I made some str8 boy friends, I realized that I didn't HAVE to act gay to be gay.

And my ex was very "butch" but is the GAYEST person I have ever met--his entire existence revolved around being gay. He didn't want to do anything outside of the gay world.

I also use "big ol bottom" as a quasi-insult, but it really isn't...I think it's just funny...and at the end of the day, aren't we all bottoms?

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:29am

...and at the end of the day, aren't we all bottoms?

I'm pretty sure we're not, lildogs.

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:32am

That was a joke dear...you remember jokes--we had em back in the 70s.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:34am

Oh, THOSE!

No, I don't remember.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:40am

That's it. I'm starting an escort/dating service called "I Can't Believe It's Not Straight Guy".

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 10:45am

If you don't remember the 70s, you must have had a GREAT time.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 11:09am

I've never really worried too much about how "gay" I act or appear; the rest of the world (both gay and straight) still does a fine job letting me know. I don't think I'm particularly nellie (others may beg to differ), but it doesn't take long for people to figure it out, even if I think I'm "acting straight." I can't remember the first time I was called a fag, but I couldn't have been any older than about seven years old. Long before I even had any coherent thought that I'd like to suck some****I'd had every name in the book thrown at me, by schoolmates, strangers, even my own family.

I really just try to be myself because at the end of the day it really doesn't matter; it's not the act of homosexuality that gets punished (whether in words or action), but it's the implication of the act of homosexuality, whether real or imagined, that sets homobigots off.

Look, I get that not every gay man likes show tunes and wearing dresses. I get that people are attracted to whom they are attracted. Whatever, I get it.

What I don't get it is why it's such a big effing deal to a gay man how another gay man acts. They're still gonna hate you for taking it up the ass even if all the nellie boys disappear tomorrow. And guess what - without the nellie boys, the "straight acting" boys will be much closer to the line of fire.

There's nothing inherently wrong with masculinity, or being aware of it, or being attracted to it, but wearing it as some sort of badge of honor or obsessing about whether or not your intended partner is masculine enough not only reeks of some long-term self-internalized homophobia, it also makes one wonder what's so offensive about femininity (or what we stereotype to be feminine) that makes so many of my brothers fixate on it so intently.

What does being "a man who acts like a man" entail? Fixing cars? Watching a ball game? Smirking and mocking other men, those who don't butch it up, those who don't or can't care to make an effort to be more "masculine"? Seriously, it seems like "acting like a man" is less about how you act and more about how you don't act. Give me a break. Life is too short.

Again, I just don't get what the big freakin deal is to those who are put-off, or grossed out of wig out or whatever at gay men that "act gay."

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 11:11am

Does anyone else have an ad for "Real Jock" right below this thread? Irony!!

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 11:21am

"it's not the act of homosexuality that gets punished (whether in words or action), but it's the implication of the act of homosexuality, whether real or imagined, that sets homobigots off."

Exactly. Homophobes dislike how some gay men "betray" their gender, their "maleness" that is, more than the actual sexual aspect of homosexuality.

It all comes back to gender-roles and heteronormativity for a lot of homophobes.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 11:30am

It's about "representin'". It's that notion that if we show straight people that we are just like them--that we are policemen and firemen and truck drivers--they will hand us our rights and respect. And if you act just the way they expect or find despicable, you are holding us back. It's like a great quote from Torch Song Trilogy.

Referring to being a drag queen: "See, I'm the last of a dying breed. Once the ERA and gay civil rights bills have been passed, me and mine will find ourselves swept under the carpets like the blacks done to Amos, Andy, and Aunt Jemima."

And if you think about it, the fem of our community have been the front lines of our fight and of educating/putting a face to people's fears (good or bad) from drag queens to Billy Crystal on Soap to Will & Grace to Queer Eye.

There's an excellent book that deals with our community's issues with masculinity and how we as a community resort to hypermasculinity at different points depending on the socio-political energy of this country. Life Outside by Michelangelo Signorile. Read it!! :)

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 11:37am

Not a big drag queen fan myself...I just don't find it entertaining. But I didn't get FRIENDS either, so what the fVck do I know?

[phantom8019]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 2:49pm

We are all people and we all act differently. Our behaviors are not only influenced by our sexual preferences, but by our parents, our schooling, our careers, etc. I am gay, and I've noticed that it can be self-limiting to act as if being gay completely defines one's self. For me it is just a part of who I am.

I've never been a fan of just reducing someone to one characteristic. History shows that is very troublesome. If you just see someone as "Protestant," "Jew," or "gay," it is much easier to hate them.

The best way to live with people peacefully is to create a stable environment where differences are allowed and reflected upon. It is not good if we are always trying to smooth things over and say "see how alike we are?" I believe that gay relationships and heterosexual relationships are very different things, both with their own benefits and detriments. I do not beleive a gay marriage is just like a straight marriage. It's not better or worse; it's just different. If I grew up with 2 dads instead of a mom and dad, I can guarantee you I would be different from how I am now. Not better. Not worse. But I would be different. We owe it to ourselves to admit this. Sometimes I feel that it is not PC to admit the differences that exist between us and heterosexuals. And as I said, these differences are just a part of who we are. We are all our own people.

I don't think this has much to do with the main topic, but those are my views.
Updated On: 4/22/08 at 02:49 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:41pm

phantom, I disagree. Not because I want to be pc but because I believe that people are unique there are many things that people have in common. While seeing differences between any couple from another couple, I can not think of a substantial difference between my relationship with my bf and a straight relationship at the core of it.

Name something that when all things are equal* can't be said of any straight couple or any gay couple.

*we can't legally marry, but when we can

*we can't make a baby, but neither can an infertile couple

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:46pm

Oh please! There's plenty of non-unique, not special people out there! Did we learn NOTHING from PIPPIN?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:52pm

LOL. I guess I need to think about the sun.

I just think at heart, we're all craving the same basic things regardless of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. You strip away those masks and we have much in common.

My God I think I'm having a kind of breakthrough. LOL

[lildogs]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:56pm

"I just think at heart, we're all craving the same basic things"

Totally.

I think my qualm with someone in my group queening out in public has less to do with any measure of gayness and more about public propriety.

I may like getting strapped down and turned every way but down, but I still have an affection for old-school comportment.

Think Olivia de Havilland with a foot fetish.

Leave a LIL mystery for the bedroom boys!

[phantom8019]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:58pm

I am not talking about the little details, like sharing a bed, buying a house, or whatever. I am talking about things from a more biologic/psychologic standpoint. And I believe these things greatly affect who were are. I believe there are important emotional and sexual differences between a male and female couple, and, for example, two men.

If men and women are biologically different and volumes of medical literature prove this also affects their behavior (hormones and such), would that not apply to relationships?

I think comparing infertile couples to gay couples is a stretch. Biologically, infertility is a defect. I would not like to think of myself as a defect.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 3:59pm

There are differences between any couple A and and couple B...gay or straight.

I think being hung up on being "straight acting" is internalized homophobia. I repeat...there is nothing straight acting about getting f**ked in the butt. I dont care what kind of costume you have on.

People who arent comfortable around effeminate men are just loathing that part of themselves.

It's psychology 101.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 4:00pm

well that sounds like two different things: being effeminate and being tacky/vulgar/raunchy in mixed company (something I have never ever done).

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 4:02pm

word!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 4/22/08 at 4:09pm

ok at the risk of blowing this up into a whole other debate, I'll put it this way:

I've date girls and guys--can't say there's been any difference to create a rule that they are different.

Maybe that's just because I am so effing terrific. :P