I (heart) Barbara Boxer- Page 2

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 1:33pm

mia, dr. rice didn't sell her soul for anything. the views she represents are the same ones she's been representing for over twenty-five years. did you ever stop to consider that rather than selling out, she believes in what she is doing? you praise educators and women, yet curse this woman who was the provost of stanford university for six years. i can understand being opposed to her views, and taking her to task for them, but to demonize her as someone who sells out her own people for a little bit of power? i hope ya'll are the face the democratic party shows publicly and often for the next few years.

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 1:37pm

Furthermore, assuming an ethnic group MUST be proud of the accomplishments of one member of said group is severely undercutting the individuality and intellegence of the members and slightly insulting. It's like saying Austrians or Germans should be extremely proud of Hitler because he conquered most of the Western world, while ignoring his attitudes and the atrocities he committed. Updated On: 2/11/05 at 01:37 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 1:41pm

so you're comparing dr. rice to hitler?

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 1:52pm

Ok, I will conceed the point to you Papa that Rice has been pretty consistent in her views, but I never said she sold out her people.

The woman has accomplished alot in her life and I'm not going to take that from her. However, I DO NOT agree with or respect the work she currently engaged in. You seem to miss that I can hold respect for her work in education and accomplishments AND not respect her political views and actions.

Edit* I think you know that I am NOT comparing her to Hitler. My point was to show that an ethnic group does not have to be proud of someone just because they are of that group. I was just throwing out an example of my point. But since it confused you, I guess I shoulda used another one. Updated On: 2/11/05 at 01:52 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 2:08pm

i know what you were doing, mia, but it's awfully easy to throw hitler out there and technically, the manner in which you did so makes condi and adolf comparable. it's a ticky tacky language thing, i know, but there are other examples that can be made that are much more analogous to the person being held up for comparison. i just hate when folks immediately go for the easy nazi reference when discussing republicans.

"sold out her people" was my unfortunate phrase. but you did say sell her soul. one could argue that part of one's soul is a respect for their history and heritage, one could, but i won't.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:00pm

oh, papa, you really are starting to sound like a babbling fool. As always, as soon as you run out of ways to argue the point of the debate, you attempt to discredit me and others--and do so quite ignorantly.

I do NOT hate all Republicans and I do NOT like all Democrats. I do not like Bush. I do not like his administration--particularly Rice, Rumsfeld, and Gonzales to name a few. I do not like homophobes and bigots who support the ban on gay marriage.

And THAT is where it ends. Otherwise, I could care less whether a person is Democrat or Republican.

So, you can quit twisting my thoughts and ideas. You keep spinning like that and you are going to puke all over your pretty pink dress.

And, keep blathering on about Dems losing more seats and going in the wrong direction. I have a feeling Dean is going to prove you wrong--and that scares the crap out of you.

I'm very sorry that it upsets you that I don't support Rice. I'm sorry if you think that makes me less of an American. But quite frankly, I think that anyone who demeans my opinions in that way IS being less of an American.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:34pm

jrb, does it make you feel better to think that you're winning an argument? keep telling yourself that, li'l buddy. and just because you use the words babble and blather in a post doesn't make it so that anyone has availed themselves of these forms of communication other than you.

personallly i don't care whether you like ms. rice or not, but the comment you make, sorry--but not just anyone will do, is pretty clear. only someone who agrees with you counts. therefore, you've chosen through those words to rob her of her ethnicity and her gender. she doesn't believe like we do, so she does not count. it arrrogant and it's wrong. but it's pointless to continue the discussion because as usual you can't see the point. it's right there in front of you. but you just can't get there. you've closed the door and there's no window through which you might look to catch a glimpse of what i mean.

you say i discredited you ignorantly, yet it is you who demean me by calling me a babbling fool, demean my masculinity through your pink dress remark, demean my words as blather and rather than address the point i raised you claim that i somehow said that you're less of an american when i have never, ever, questioned your patriotism or insinuated that you were somehow less of an american in any way shape or form and it infuriates me that you would claim that i have done so. you demonize me, attempt to feminize me, accuse me of cribbing my thoughts from someone else and yet you still can somehow with a straight face claim victimhood. you need to take a look in the mirror, pal. i think the enemy you're railing about is closer than you think.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:44pm

LMAO!!! Beautiful.

Listen, you are indeed twisting my "sorry--but not just anyone will do". I don't just merely disagree with Rice--I think she is a BAD person. So AGAIN, I'm sorry that I don't get all thrilled that she is the first black woman in the job. And, I'm sure mia and the actresses I mentioned aren't excited and thrilled about Condi either. The statement means that JUST because Condi is black does not mean that all black Americans and non-racist Americans should be happy.

It's like when everyone thought that black movie fans should be THRILLED about Halle Berry winning the first Best Actress Oscar--just cuz ya know SHE'S BLACK. SOME black movie fans were disappointed. Either because they did not respect the role that Halle won for or because they wanted Sissy Spacek or another actress to win.

The flip side to this example is all the people who say Halle ONLY won because she is black--that the Academy wanted to be politically correct. Completely dismissing any notion that Halle might have given a great performance.

So, while I do not have ANY problem with you and others being thrilled for Condi, I am SICK SICK SICK of listening to you and other Condi lovers RAILING us who do not support her.

[Plum]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:51pm

i stand by the fact that you are racist in the worst way. you don't see a person's ethnicity, only their political affiliation.

What? Surely I'm misunderstanding this. It seems right to me if you judge a politician by their politics rather than by the color of their skin- how exactly is that racist?

And as for blacks being proud of Condi- I look at Joe Lieberman and I'm not particularly proud. His politics, quite frankly, stink, and I hate that he's one of the most prominent Jews in the country. He's not who I'd choose to have representing me. And you know what's nice? To me, he doesn't. Because saying a Jew is a Jew is a Jew, whether you associate good or bad qualities with that group, is what racism is really about. I'm not attached to Joe Lieberman by virtue of my religion any more than Condi Rice is attached to...oh, heck- Denzel Washington- by virtue of her skin color. A person is a person is a person, and trying to shove them into a race slot, whether your intentions are to degrade or adulate them, is both inaccurate and morally wrong.

Hopefully this whole post is moot and I'm just misunderstanding what's being said in this thread- I did read through it pretty quickly, after all. I'm just going to go back to making a little "race is fake" sign for my wall.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:51pm

jrb, i never said that you should be thrilled. never. that was the contention that you brought into this from your first post and no one has mentioned it but you. nor do i believe that i ever railed. please limit your arguments to those of us in the thread.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:54pm

oh really now, papa! It's only ok for you to expand the argument to the debate the country is having. Or even to other threads. Only YOU can make such allusions.

Nice.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:57pm

you really don't see it.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 3:58pm

um--what are you talking about NOW?

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 4:53pm

Papa, the jury is out on her as Secretary of State. As Americans, we all wish her well: everyone wants the country to succeed. But there is clearly reason to be skeptical.

I am clearly impressed by her resume: provost of Stanford, fluent in Russian and Chinese, concert pianist, figure skater -- all a product of the segregated South. But I am equally concerned about her lack of transparency and candor during hearings last summer and last month (especially about the infamous bin Laden memo); her seemingly blind adherence to doctrine versus Kissingerian realpolitik; and her really scary slips-of-the-tongue (calling W "my husband" or saying that Turkey experienced a "civil war"). I hope she disproves her critic and turns out to be a great role model, ends the war in Iraq and reverses the horrendous foreign policy record of the first term.

If I were a Senator (which I might well be, by the way), I would have voted no. But that's just me.

[Plum]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 5:14pm

To be fair, almost everybody plays these games during confirmation hearings. It's practically expected.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/05 at 5:16pm

well, zola, if you're a senator then i might just have to quit laughing so uproariously every time mrs. mambo intimates that she thinks i have a future in politics. now c'mon, in dubya's white house we're worried about her slips of the tongue (yes, you did win the bonus point bonanza for slipping in that phrase)? i find your hope for her future inspiring and your skepticism understandable.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 1:22am

I am going to echo Senator LaPlaya and say that despite my opinion of Condi (and frankly this applies to all of those I despise), I do hope they do a good job. I am not praying that they crash and burn--as that would not be good for the country.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 2:26am

I have absolutely nothing to add to this except to say that I have certainly enjoyed reading this entire thread (slightly tipsy, no less!) and have to add my amusement that Republicans are daring to consider themselves the part of enlightenment when 95% of the southern state in which I grew up is voting Republican and about as racist as it's possible to be.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 9:07am

I've nothing to add since Zola already voiced how I feel, and articulated it better than I would have said it.

On a lighter note, I was only but three or four posts into reading this thread when I would have bet the bank that Corine would show up and post THAT line from Avenue Q...

[mominator]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 9:27am

Zola thank you, for saying it so well. ( I could just hug you!) If it ever does come to pass, I'd gladly work on your campagin! Morning flit!

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 9:29am

BARBARA BOXER=SEXY LADY

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 9:34am

Barbara Boxer = my political hero these days

[mominator]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 9:40am

Have always admired Ms Boxer!

[ChicagoBwayFan]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 10:17am

Barbara Boxer has the IQ and charisma of an empty box. All she can do is bitch about this or that. I'll take Dr. Rice

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 2/12/05 at 11:31am

Lol, I'll take the bitch over the compulsive liar any day.