I Have a Dilemma- Page 2

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 2:53pm

Matt - Do you know if people can get unemployment if they are let go during a probational period? If not, wouldn't my case be a wee bit different since I worked for this company for almost two years and this was just a new position?

Updated On: 9/17/09 at 02:53 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 5:58pm

Okay....here is an update:

Before I left work today, the big boss told me that she spoke to the HR person and the HR person told her that we are going to treat this like I am resigning (2 weeks notice and all). She said that since this is still considered a probational period and my boss stated that I tried but was not properly trained, that the HR person will approve the unemployment when she gets the form from the unemployment office. I just need to tell the unemployment office that I tried my best but was not properly trained and the director agreed.

I told my parents this and they went almost ape **** saying they are screwing me over and they will never approve the unemployment because they are just covering their backs.

I really don't have too many options here. My last day is October 9th. No matter which way I do this, it's not going to change that I am going to be gone on that day and I don't want to have it be known that I was fired. I would rather it have I quit on my own accord and when I interview for another job, just say that I planned to move and get a job in Ohio (the state I chose to move to) to be closer to friends

What do you guys think?

[Eris0303]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 6:07pm

Every place I have ever worked has had the rule that when called for a reference all they can do is confirm that you worked there. They are not supposed to offer positive or negative opinions.

You, also, might want to see if you can find out that they've filed your paperwork with the state. I was let go from a job where I was making more than $20,000/year and at my job before that I made around $8/hr. When I filed for unemployement I was going to received money based on the $8/hr because the company I had worked at for 18 months never filed with the state that I worked there.

I second the idea that you should go in with a lawyer. You need someone on your side because you are not resigning. It is not your choice to leave.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 6:13pm

I can't afford a lawyer. I can barely afford gas to put in my car. Either way I'm screwed.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 6:17pm

I wish I knew someone who could advise you, DJ!

[sabrelady]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 7:55pm

4get lawyers. u have 2 yrs of continuous employment w the same employer. Talk to your unemployment office for advice on what they can & can't do. Sure this isn't the 1st time this has happened (esp w/in healthcare) It is up the the employer how much of a reference they give u ie- just a confirmation of years of employment, termination for cause, most immportently the rehire answer. liability for prev employee actions @ a new job usually limits what they want to (or can) say. Is there anyone from your previous position who could be a a reference?
Good Luck.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 9/17/09 at 11:01pm

If this doesn't end up working out, is there any other field in which you could be employed? To tell you the truth, my gut instinct was to tell you to move to NY and start auditioning for stuff, but that's incredibly risky for someone who has nothing to fall back on.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 5:54am

GET IT IN WRITING THAT THEY WILL APPROVE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT.

Make sure IMPORTANT people sign the document. Don't just accept an HR's person word. EVER.

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 8:43am

First, I would get it in writing from your boss that they will grant your unemployment and that they won't label you as "unhireable."

As Eris said, the laws have changed and all an employer can do is say if you did indeed work there from one date to another. However, having been back near a manager when they were called to give a reference, tone of voice can say a lot. The plus side is, obviously, they aren't legally allowed to call you "unhireable," however if you put them down as a personal reference, you are.

If your previous supervisor was happy with you, and they can give you a good reference, then you should put them as a personal reference. And, check around, if you were in this new position for 90 days, you may be able to skip listing it, and just list your previous one. (However, I have *no* idea)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 8:59am

There HAS to be a pro bono lawyer somewhere who can help you. DEFINITELY get everything in writing. And I too have heard what Jane has heard, HR is only supposed to confirm that you worked there and between what dates when called by other prospective employers. They risk being sued if they give bad references to prospective employers.

Honestly, do a little research on poor people who need legal employment help in your area. It will be worth it if you turn something up and I totally get your parents flipping out.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 9:05am

I am trying to get everything in writing. Just emailed the head of the HR department as well as the director. Whatever they send me back I will save.

[kelzama]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 10:51am

Get any communication regarding your termination in writing on company letterhead, not just email (altho still save every copy of those, too.) Something here just isn't adding up. Companies don't give "negative references" anymore; too much liability. They merely confirm or deny whether you worked there. Personal references are different, but why you'd want a personal reference from a manager who clearly did not value you as an employee is beyond me. Call (better yet, visit) your local unemployment office for guidance on terms of qualification. Make sure (after two years) that any retirement plans in which you may have invested are rolled over into a qualifying account. Make sure you have any healthcare issues covered, so you might continue coverage under COBRA. Make sure you sign nothing that you don't agree with or fully understand. Meet with HR. They should have provided you with an employee manual that specifies terms of employment and terms of ending employment. Two years' probation? For the same position? Really? Did you know that going into this job? That's ridiculous.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 10:54am

Minor update

My director is printing out and giving me a letter of recommendation. She sent it to me to read and it's really nice. So, that is one thing marked off of the list.

Now, I emailed HR and she emailed me back asking me to call her. She is being VERY difficult putting anything in writing. I emailed her back and asked her if I could actually come to the office and speak to her. That was over an hour ago and still have heard nothing back.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 10:57am

Kelzama - The probation wasn't two years. I was in a billing position at the hospital for a year and 4 months. Then I moved over here (front desk at the hospital's physical therapy dept) 3 months ago, and that was my 90 day probational period. And it's not that the director didn't like me (she keeps telling me that she does), it is that I wasn't properly trained and I was hired under false assumptions about my work history.

Updated On: 9/18/09 at 10:57 AM

[Q]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 10:58am

Unless something has changed very recently, one question prospective employers can ask is if you're eligible for re-hire. The simple yes or no answer then gets interpreted as an indication of your job performance.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 11:00am

I was told the same thing, Q

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 11:30am

I don't know how it works in all states, but I know that any state I've worked will only allow information other than date and position (and perhaps eligibility for rehire) to be verified without written consent of the employee. But like Q said, a "no" on being eligible for rehire often means a lot. And I know for a fact that sometimes HR people will talk "off the record" or allow themselves to be asked leading questions.

All that said, it sounds like they've been wanting to get rid of you for a while and have been trying to build a valid enough case that won't be questioned. And it really does sound like they are trying to make sure you don't get unemployment. HR departments can be shady. I've worked with great ones and I've worked with absolutely terrible ones.

If you don't get a lawyer and they wind up denying your unemployment I think that you're entitled to take it some sort of arbitration process, but, like most others who've posted, I would try to get it straightened out now to avoid those hassles.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 11:33am

I would assume if I got something in writing from HR stating that I am leaving, not because I did something wrong, but because there was no other position opened in the hospital for me and I was hired under false assumptions.....then that should be enough to give to the unemployment office. Right? I all ready know she is not going to write anything up saying that I will get unemployment. She has all ready made that clear.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 12:53pm

Okay, now I called a left a message and still no return from the HR person. NOT a happy camper right now

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 1:42pm

Okay, she finally emailed me back. I am meeting with her at 4pm. Any suggestions on what I need to include in my speech?

Updated On: 9/18/09 at 01:42 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 9/18/09 at 2:43pm

Anyone? Any advice will help. Just remember that she has made it very clear she will not write a letter to say I am def. getting unemployment

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 9/19/09 at 10:16am

Employer's don't "decide" or "approve" unemployment. The most the employer can promise you right now is that they will not PROTEST the initial claim.

When you file your claim tell the agency exactly what happened.If you DID submit a letter of resignation, take a copy with you. Take copies of the emails, too, including the one where you asked HR if you would still be jobless if you do not give them a letter and her response to "call me" (or whatever it said) and a copy or your reference letter from your supervisor.

The agency will alert the employer that you have filed a claim to collect and will give them a chance to tell their side of the events that led to your separation; this is their PROTEST and must be done by a certain date. An adjudicator will make a determination based on the information available.

Whoever "loses" that determination has a limited time to file an appeal.

Do not wait, they are VERY strict with deadlines for appeals. If you are allowed benefits on the initial claim you don't have to do anything unless the employer files a timely appeal, in this case saying you "resigned". You will receive notice of the employer's appeal.

Read everything you get from the agency carefully looking for the words "allowed" or "denied" or "disqualified" and most importantly "IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS DETERMINATION/DECISION YOU HAVE UNTIL (DATE/NUMBER OF DAYS) TO FILE AN APPEAL"

You will get a notice of appeal if the employer decides to take this to a hearing. Again, read and keep everything. If the determination is against you, you also have the right to a hearing. You don't need an attorney, it is like People's Court, so make sure if you do go to a hearing you have all your documents and stick to the facts. You must also submit all documents to the judge and the employer prior to the hearing or they might not be considered in the decision and you cannot use them later if you should lose this portion of the process.

If you DO lose at this hearing you may appeal to the Board of Review (again, look for the "appeal by" dates!) And if you lose on the Board decision you can take it to civil court, but that is really not very cost effective for the amount of money you are talking about. Don't worry, it won't get that far.



As I mentioned in my PM it is not impossible to get benefits even if you submit a letter of resignation. If you can prove that it was done in lieu of discharge and that the discharge was not for willful and deliberate misconduct (your case), or that the resignation was for reasons attributable to the employer, (they changed your pay, hours, work duties that were agreed upon which are not reasonable, harassment, not being a safe work environment...of course these don't apply in your case, but if they did you need to show the agency that you tried to rectify or mitigate the problem prior to quitting).

You should not have a problem, but don't submit a letter if you don't have to, it will just complicate things.

You have a great letter of rec from your supervisor, that should be fine for future employers.

How did the meeting with HR go?

[tazber]

Posted: 9/19/09 at 11:07am

An employer can say whatever they wish regarding a prior employee, the "only give dates that you worked" idea is a myth.

Having said that, most don't give their opinion however for fear of defamation lawsuits. But be very clear - a "no comment" or ONLY giving the dates of employment is just as bad as saying something negative.

Most potential employers word their request for information in such a way as to leave room for positive feedback. If they only get dates it's a dead giveaway.

The only things that are legally out of bounds are false informtion or information that has nothing to do with job performance (race, sexual orientation, other personal details).

The best way to ensure positive feedback during these calls is to give a very good exit interview. Do not leave HR with the impression that you are bitter or unco-operative.