Is Madonna still Queen? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 12/28/04 at 2:49pm
This thread makes me feel like Methuselah. Clearly I'm the only person here old enough to remember that for many years Madonna was a controversial pop singer who lived her life in a way most considered to be quite trashy. As Britney is now, Madonna was blamed for all the evils of society - for little girls dressing in ways deemed inappropriate and singing along to lyrics way beyond their age ranges, etc. She was looked at the same way as Britney is now. Controversial, trashy, and basically a very bad influence on the kids.
Then she grew up, and eventually became the British children's author we know today.
Then she grew up, and eventually became the British children's author we know today.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#28
Posted: 12/28/04 at 2:51pm
wow you know alot you should right book reports for me!lol
#29
Posted: 12/28/04 at 2:52pm
Rath--that last part is pretty funny!
I think what you are saying is true. I think what robbie is saying is also true. It's robbie's comparison that paints a distinction between the two.
I think what you are saying is true. I think what robbie is saying is also true. It's robbie's comparison that paints a distinction between the two.
#30
Posted: 12/28/04 at 5:11pm
Madonna never was the queen of pop music. Madonna sucks! The ABBA girls were the queens of pop music in the 70s & 80s. Shania Twain became the queen in the 90s and is still the queen. I am a songwriter so I know. Download Jim Colyer music free: http://www.jimcolyer.com/music/
Jim Colyer
Jim Colyer
#31
Posted: 12/28/04 at 5:26pm
And being a songwriter in itself makes you the lone expert?
A little full of ourself aren't we?
A little full of ourself aren't we?
#32
Posted: 12/28/04 at 7:20pm
Well, if Jim thinks Shania is queen, you can bet I won't be downloading HIS music.
Back to Madonna:
Do I think she's still Queen? Well, if she's not, then there's still no one sitting on the throne. I'd say on the international level, Madonna still reigns supreme. She may not be as popular in the US (one can argue that it was due to her strong political statements before the war on Iraq that she fell; after all, her previous album "Music" delivered one of the biggest #1 singles of her career); but Madonna is still the biggest artist in the rest of the world, especially Europe.
I don't really buy the Madonna-Britney comparisons (even if Madonna has herself done the comparison). It's true that Britney courts controversy just like Madonna did in the 80s; however, with Britney there's very little intellectual provocation. robbiej has described very eloquently how Madonna's roots have made her a very different cultural icon. Indeed, while Britney partied it up with Mickey Mouse, Madonna was living off the streets of New York, hanging out with artists like Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat. Thus, Madonna's work -- her music, video, and persona -- has always been much more politically active and culturally aware than Britney's.
The most political thing Britney has ever done was support the President; in contrast, Madonna was pushing the buttons of gender, politics, sexuality, art (so many of her videos are inspired by movements like German expressionism and art deco), religion, RACE (a few of my professors still lambast Madonna for "appropriating" black culture, as if it's forbidden property), and media.
Madonna's cultural impact is, of course, influenced by the period of her fame. Her explosion on the cultural scene was in defiance of the regimes of Regan and Thatcher; Madonna's presence like a big "f*ck you" to social conservatism. Madonna actually made Pop a political force. She was (and continues to be) RELEVANT.
It's almost depressing how separated popular culture is now from politics and activism. Nothing Britney has done seems to have any relevance to the world. Can we really learn about art history from studying a Britney video like we can from a Madonna video? For all the flesh Britney bares, has she ever said one thing to further the status of women or their empowerment? For all her gay dancers, has Britney ever made any attempt to take a stand on gay rights or gay marriage? *sigh* no. Unlike Madonna, a cultural force to be reckoned with, Britney is a politically-silent corporate puppet.
Back to Madonna:
Do I think she's still Queen? Well, if she's not, then there's still no one sitting on the throne. I'd say on the international level, Madonna still reigns supreme. She may not be as popular in the US (one can argue that it was due to her strong political statements before the war on Iraq that she fell; after all, her previous album "Music" delivered one of the biggest #1 singles of her career); but Madonna is still the biggest artist in the rest of the world, especially Europe.
I don't really buy the Madonna-Britney comparisons (even if Madonna has herself done the comparison). It's true that Britney courts controversy just like Madonna did in the 80s; however, with Britney there's very little intellectual provocation. robbiej has described very eloquently how Madonna's roots have made her a very different cultural icon. Indeed, while Britney partied it up with Mickey Mouse, Madonna was living off the streets of New York, hanging out with artists like Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat. Thus, Madonna's work -- her music, video, and persona -- has always been much more politically active and culturally aware than Britney's.
The most political thing Britney has ever done was support the President; in contrast, Madonna was pushing the buttons of gender, politics, sexuality, art (so many of her videos are inspired by movements like German expressionism and art deco), religion, RACE (a few of my professors still lambast Madonna for "appropriating" black culture, as if it's forbidden property), and media.
Madonna's cultural impact is, of course, influenced by the period of her fame. Her explosion on the cultural scene was in defiance of the regimes of Regan and Thatcher; Madonna's presence like a big "f*ck you" to social conservatism. Madonna actually made Pop a political force. She was (and continues to be) RELEVANT.
It's almost depressing how separated popular culture is now from politics and activism. Nothing Britney has done seems to have any relevance to the world. Can we really learn about art history from studying a Britney video like we can from a Madonna video? For all the flesh Britney bares, has she ever said one thing to further the status of women or their empowerment? For all her gay dancers, has Britney ever made any attempt to take a stand on gay rights or gay marriage? *sigh* no. Unlike Madonna, a cultural force to be reckoned with, Britney is a politically-silent corporate puppet.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
Updated On: 12/28/04 at 07:20 PM
#33
Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:28pm
Blue Wizard, Thank you, my thoughts exactly !!! MADONNA is more than a Queen, she is an idol, a Godess, a role model, a leader..you name it. She has achieved so many things on so many levels that it is insulting to compare her to Britney (though she's ok for me). Madonna pushes the music forward with each new album, voices her opinion strongly and i do believe she is the most famous woman on the planet (any other suggestions welcome). So in answer to the question, YES, she is still the Queen and always will be !! :)
Take care
Take care
#34
Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:44pm
I can not stand to even look at Madonna's face on TV. She has a sour look. She is ugly. I must have turned her off a thousand times in the late 80s and early 90s. Thank God she has faded out. She will never be back. All I remember is that video where she is pretending to be Marilyn Monroe. I knew she was fake from the beginning. Madonna's music is the most insipid crap ever produced. Her songs are weak. Her voice is thin. I was so glad when SHANIA TWAIN brought great music back to music lovers everywhere. Shania will turn 40 next August but she is still the one.
Jim Colyer
Jim Colyer
#35
Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:47pm
Are you Shania's husband or are you two just having an affair?
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
Updated On: 12/28/04 at 08:47 PM
#36
Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:49pm
If all you can remember is 'that video where she was pretending to be Marilyn Monroe', what makes you such an expert? And what's age got to do with anything? And ugly? You sir are not nice.
Updated On: 12/28/04 at 08:49 PM
#37
Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:53pm
I think anyone who shills himself in every post is a bit of a loser. Obviously, if Jim was a Madonna fan, he'd learn be a much savvier self-marketer. 
And the "Material Girl" video is a sendup of Marilyn Monroe.
And Shania Twain's new song (with Mark McGrath, of all people -- have their careers fallen to this state?) makes my ears bleed.
And the "Material Girl" video is a sendup of Marilyn Monroe.
And Shania Twain's new song (with Mark McGrath, of all people -- have their careers fallen to this state?) makes my ears bleed.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
#39
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:00pm
I'm hardly the world's biggest Madonna fan, but if I had the choice to listen to only one cd for the rest of my life, it would be no contest - I'd pick Madonna's worst cd over the best of Shania.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#40
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:17pm
I am sorry but the truth sets us free. Madonna has a sour look. I have at times thrown my hand in front of my face when her image appeared on my TV. I think she was born in 1958. She will soon be 50. She will look back and regret some of her escapades if she has even the smallest trace of dignity. The two queens of pop music in the last 50 years are Agnetha Faltskog of the Swedish group ABBA and Shania Twain. Agnetha and Shania are also the two most beautiful women in the history of women.
Jim Colyer
Jim Colyer
#41
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:30pm
Jim is a joke. His bragging and pointless devotion to ABBA and Shania are his gimmicks.
#42
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:36pm
Now hold on just a goshdarn minute there, Ma. His devotion to ABBA is his one redeeming quality.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#43
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:40pm
Yes, but let's face it, ABBA is at best a guilty pleasure.
If his idea of pop royalty is ABBA and Shania Twain, I'd hate to see what musical concoctions he wants to unleash out into the world.
If his idea of pop royalty is ABBA and Shania Twain, I'd hate to see what musical concoctions he wants to unleash out into the world.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
#44
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:46pm
Hang on! ABBA nowt more than a guilty pleasure! Blasphemy!
ABBA songs are some of the best crafted songs ever.
ABBA songs are some of the best crafted songs ever.
#45
Posted: 12/28/04 at 9:47pm
I started writing a book about ABBA in 1988. I focused chiefly on their music but included biographies of the 4 members. I called my book ABBA and Their Music. I went on to include the solo years with chapters devoted to the albums of Agnetha and Frida. I covered the musicals of Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus: Chess, Kristina!, and Mamma Mia. I spent 6 weeks in Stockholm, Sweden in 1994 and met with Gorel Hanser, the lady who has handled ABBA's affairs since Stig Anderson, their manager in the 1970s, died.
As for Shania Twain, I wrote songs for and recorded with a Shania impersonater in Nashville for 4 years. I have a nice Shania collection and have seen her twice in concert. Mutt Lange is a lucky man.
Jim Colyer
As for Shania Twain, I wrote songs for and recorded with a Shania impersonater in Nashville for 4 years. I have a nice Shania collection and have seen her twice in concert. Mutt Lange is a lucky man.
Jim Colyer
#46
Posted: 12/28/04 at 10:21pm
Hang on! ABBA nowt more than a guilty pleasure! Blasphemy!
ABBA songs are some of the best crafted songs ever.
True, I've heard that argument. Still, I can only take so much fluff!
(No party is complete without Dancing Queen, though.)
Jim, there are university courses on and PhD dissertations about the impact Madonna has had on politics, religion, gender, sexuality and the American psyche. Surely that signifies that she's an important figure in popular culture. Just because you don't like her personally doesn't mean that Madonna is somehow pondscum; if anything, the ferociousness of your statements only reveal your own close-mindedness and a rather disturbing attitude.
ABBA songs are some of the best crafted songs ever.
True, I've heard that argument. Still, I can only take so much fluff!
(No party is complete without Dancing Queen, though.)
Jim, there are university courses on and PhD dissertations about the impact Madonna has had on politics, religion, gender, sexuality and the American psyche. Surely that signifies that she's an important figure in popular culture. Just because you don't like her personally doesn't mean that Madonna is somehow pondscum; if anything, the ferociousness of your statements only reveal your own close-mindedness and a rather disturbing attitude.
BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner
HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."
#47
Posted: 12/28/04 at 11:53pm
#48
Posted: 12/29/04 at 12:59am
Oh man. I'm really tired right now, I thought the thread said "Is Madonna still gay" at first glance. Oy.
#49
Posted: 3/17/05 at 8:17pm
What's Madonna up to right now, anyway?
And where's Jim Colyer gone?
Perhaps they're working on a project together.
And where's Jim Colyer gone?
Perhaps they're working on a project together.
#50
Posted: 3/17/05 at 8:30pm
I'm right here, have no fear. I will post another song soon. I am pitching a song to Gretchen Wilson in Nashville. By the way, Madonna was never Queen. The ABBA girls were Queen. When they stepped down, Shania Twain became Queen. She still rules.
Jim Colyer
Jim Colyer
Updated On: 3/17/05 at 08:30 PM
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