Is this the worst debate ever?
Is this the worst debate ever?
Is this the worst debate ever?#1
Posted: 4/16/08 at 8:33pmIt's been over 30 minutes, and all they've covered is bittergate, pastorgate, and Bosniagate. Will we ever get to hear their thoughts on real issues???
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#2
Posted: 4/16/08 at 8:39pmAnd now we're on to Obama's not wearing of a flag pin. Hasn't this been covered dozens of times?
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#2
Posted: 4/16/08 at 11:32pm
Well, I think you'll all have to admit that our good Senator from Noo Yawk knocked that debate kuh-lear outa duh ballpark!
Duh winnuh and kuh-leeeeeee-aar champeen:
The Next President of the United States
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#3
Posted: 4/17/08 at 3:04am
I thought it was an excellent debate, hitting on issues that haven't been discussed before or others as clearly. And, it managed to tackle the controversies that do/don't matter.
Obama is not a great speaker at all when off script. She, however, is glorious.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#4
Posted: 4/17/08 at 6:55am
you know what i hated about the debates most?
i *expect* the moderator to be douches...maybe not in such a BANAL way, but douchey nontheless.
but i dont expect the candidates to ALLOW themelves to be framed that way and REENFORCE the media's phoney storylines.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#5
Posted: 4/17/08 at 6:55am
I hate that time was wasted on flag pins, Bosnia, and Rev Wright while the real issues of healthcare, immigration, education, and the environment were pretty much ignored.
I thought they both handled themselves fairly well, but since over half the time was spent on non-policy issues, I'd have to say that John McCain was the clear winner last night.
I thought she came across better on gas prices, but I think he answered the question on the war better. I was surprised she didn't respond to his reference to Bill's pardons.
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/03
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#6
Posted: 4/17/08 at 8:34am
McCain's night, to be sure.
Watching this party trade accusations about 60s radicals, however, was a low point. I thought often of Wilson's beautiful play, FIFTH OF JULY. "The country we almost made for you..." came down to this? A white baby boomer woman and a younger black man splitting hairs over Weathermen? This is where the left ended up? As for the impact of last night.. Winner? Loser? Anyone in either camp who feels like gloating this morning, well, all I can say is, enjoy.
McCain can start working on his Innaugural speech.
What I loved most: the cutaway reactions shots to Chelsea, in a beautific warm glow, in stark contrast to most of the rest of the house bathed in subdued and anonymous blue. I guess she just picked the right seat, huh?
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#8
Posted: 4/17/08 at 8:56am
Where's the whining? I wanted to hear BOTH OF THEM talk about specifics on education, healthcare, environment, etc. I thought she came across much better in the second half of the debate, when they were talking about details of their vision. I don't think she (or anyone) benefitted from the first half of the debate. I think if the entire debate had focused on the issues, she could have had a much bigger night, although I think she did do well overall.
Didn't you get that Chinese food you talked about ordering last night?
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#9
Posted: 4/17/08 at 9:08am
Salon.com nailed it. Lots of gotcha politics, little substance.
"Maybe it is just as well that these over-hyped battles behind dueling lecterns should come to an end after 22 (count them!) Democratic face-offs. Even though the candidates had not debated since Feb. 26 in Cleveland (another date that has been etched in history), they could not muster a single new argument between them. It would be one thing if this prolonged race were a titanic clash of ideologies or a desperate struggle for the soul of the Democratic Party. Instead, either candidate could have easily given Clinton's answer on Iraq: "So the bottom line for me is: We don't know what will happen as we withdraw. We do know what will happen if we stay mired in Iraq." In short, Obama versus Clinton has become a variety show without the variety."
The Fizzle in Philly
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#10
Posted: 4/17/08 at 9:30amYep. And this "show" is headed for cancellation.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/03
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#11
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:05am
But can a candidate with a 54% negative, and a 38?% trustworthy "walk through fire?"
And is "the fire" not being stoked by the walk?
The gloating over a perceived triumph last night delivers ... what, ultimately? What is the goal here, a win in November, or a revenge on a biased media and a "duped" Democratic party? I thought the grand design was on leading a fractured, dispirited nation, unifiying a split party and a society addicted to internecine warfare, not proving that Chris Matthews is a sexist pig who can be trounced in his own mud, and that Obama supporters are naive idol fans. So Hillary Clinton triumphs, proving her opponent entirely unworthy of the nomination. She then moves on to ... conquor MSNBC? To rub the noses of everyone who voted for Obama in the resulting detritus?
I don't want to whine, I want my country back. I want to see a reversal of the brutalizing power-grabs of the past 7 years. Watching lines fed from Sean Hannity, and flag-pin lapels being debated, and ancient radicals' endorsements offered up as evidence of un-American values ... I see no step toward any kind of transcendence of the nasty climate we've weathered too long. Just more of the same.
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#12
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:10am
If people hadn't met him and could tell me differently, I'd swear PalJoey was actually Howard Dean. I think they have about the same level of possitive effect.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#13
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:13amwhat a great night of television.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#14
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:21am
Is this the worst debate ever?
Without Bush, it's not possible.
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#15
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:25am
"Worst. Debate. Ever.
The blogosphere is unanimous in declaring ABC's Democratic debate an absolute stinker
April 16, 2008 11:30 PM
Almost a year since the Democrats had their first debate of the presidential campaign, and what did we get in the latest one? A stinker, an absolute car crash - thanks to the host network ABC. It was worse than even those debates last year with 18 candidates on stage, including crazy old Mike Gravel.
It took almost 50 minutes into the debate before the first question came that resembled something to do with policy, rather than warmed-up campaign sniping phrased as questions, and which ran the gamut from banal to inane. At the end of the debate members of the crowd appeared to be booing moderator Charlie Gibson.
The blogosphere was not happy. Not happy at all...."
From the Guardian Unlimited.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#17
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:31am
"Will we ever get to hear their thoughts on real issues???"
Let's just be honest. If Obama would quit being an elitist and allow Fox News to host a debate, you would hear their thoughts (or lack of them) on real issues. The other media outlets are in love with Obama and won't ask him any "break a nail" questions. It's like watching Charles Van Doren.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/12/06
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#18
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:36amHillary actually thinks Fox is fair to her.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#19
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:47am
"Hillary actually thinks Fox is fair to her."
She has to say that because Rupert Murdoch threw a fundraiser for her. Obama should be less churlish because Murdoch's daughter donated to his campaign.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#20
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:49am
I'd swear PalJoey was actually Howard Dean.
Actually, I think Howard Dean and Donna Brazile should be put on trial for election tampering.
re: Is this the worst debate ever?#21
Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:58am
The blogosphere was not happy. Not happy at all...
Eat my boxer briefs, blogosphere.
The "blogosphere," many of whom used to be by favorite morning reads back in the good ol' days when they were were attacking George Bush, have been relentlessly attacking Hillary since New Hampshire, ludicrously imagining that Obama's honeymoon with the mainstream media would last forever. Meanwhile the few progressive bloggers who were still pro-Hillary (TalkLeft, Taylor Marsh, MyDD) warned them that the media eats ALL Democrats sooner or later.
But they didn't listen. They cackled with glee when Olbermatthews attacked Hillary. Finally, the blogosphere has become as poisonous to American politics as the mainstream media has been.
But here's the lesson we can learn from Hillary, whether she becomes the nominee or not: WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH...FIGHT HARDER.
It's the only way to beat the Republicans...and the media...and the blogosphere.
keep up the great debates#22
Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:16ampj is not howard dean. i would not buy howard dean drinks.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
keep up the great debates#23
Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:32am
How in the world does a debate where Hillary speaks effortlessly and Obama stutters and "uhs" every other sentence equate her demise?
It would seem so far that the only people who hated that debate are the Obama supporters and why? He looked bad. She looked good.
I am TRYING to have an equal opinion of both of them. I am TRYING so hard.
But I want a President who can do the job. Not just a fad. And, yes, I really am starting to absolutely believe that you guys have fallen for a fad.
keep up the great debates#24
Posted: 4/17/08 at 12:15pmConceding that she did better in the debate, in my opinion, she needed even more. She needed him to blunder badly, and while he is not as polished a debater as she, he didn't muck up anything. I don't think she benefited from rehashing flag pins or Rev Wright. I think she could have benefited from more time on actual issues. I thought she did very well there, and could have had a bigger win with more focus on specifics.
keep up the great debates#26
Posted: 4/17/08 at 12:30pm
If there is a NC primary debate, I don't want to suffer through Madame Carpetbagger waxing on about her 15th cousin twice removed who resides in some part of Appalachia to prove that there's tar on her heels.
That debate blew chunks in every way imagineable.
Both pandered to no end on the Iraq withdrawal issue. How can two candidates, neither of which has a record of military service, presume themselves more knowledgeable about warcraft than the joint chiefs of staff.
From the start the thing most off-putting about Hillary has been her sense of "entitlement" to the office of POTUS. The height of elitism (applying today's meaning) are those that think that we supporters of Obama are too goddamned aloof from reality and ill-informed to back a candidate based on his or her merits.
Hillary has made a career out of living off the political largesse of male benefactors. There's nothing self-made about her. Counter to Dubya, she has an unresolved Electra complex. In her case, she's haunted by the ghost of a departed dad who constantly reminds her that she couldn't cut it as a Republican.
It's obvious now that Andrew Sullivan was correct...she is Dick Cheney in a pain suit!
keep up the great debates#27
Posted: 4/17/08 at 12:36pm
"The height of elitism (applying today's meaning) are those that think that we supporters of Obama are too goddamned aloof from reality and ill-informed to back a candidate based on his or her merits. "
Guess that makes me the height of elitism.
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