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#26

re: John Edwards is Evil

Dick Cheney may not be the most charismatic, charming, happy, or honest man in the world, but at least he makes more arguments based on facts than on trying to play off of people's emotions.

Substitute Kerry for Cheney and you still have a true statement.

And Rodney, I highly reccomend that you read Against All Enemies. In fact, everyone should read it- it's extremely educational and an interesting perspective on the "War on Terror" from a guy who's been trying to fight that war for over a decade.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 11:34 AM

#27

re: John Edwards is Evil

I find your assessment of Cheney to be way to polite, FF. He is based on many lies--and lies that have killed people. I think he's just a TITCH worse.
johnraymondbarker.com
#29

re: John Edwards is Evil

Flowery I have been hearing quite a bit in the news lately about how ridiculous malractice is getting because of the constant barrage of lawsuits on doctors. It really is quite intriguing. That combined with the mess known as insurance today gives us a heap of a mess known as our health care system. It really needs cleaned up, but with insurance companies feeding so much money to politicians and the fact that we expect doctor's to be perfect otherwise we sue them (some doctor's deserve to be sued, don't get me wrong) our health care system is going to be in miserable shape.
My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...
#30

re: John Edwards is Evil

I think I love you ~ff~.
My father was a physician. He was a radiologist. Over 50% of his practice was mammographies. He spent his day saving lives by diagnosing breast cancer, and finding broken bones.

He was named in many suits, because when an Edwards-style trial lawyer goes after a suit, they name everyone who has ever touched the patient, regardless of if they contributed to the death/injury.

One day, after his insurance premiums were increased because of a suit, he had to close one of his offices (and subsequently decrease the number of mammographies, etc. performed by his business). He sat me down... I was about 15. He told me, 'Chris... don't you EVER become a doctor. Lawyers are ruining the medical field.'

The suit that was the catalyst of this event was in regards to a woman who had died of ovarian cancer. She had seen my father 3 months prior, to have a broken wrist x-rayed.

I know it's not JUST John Edwards... but his peers as well. He has the makings of a real demon. His "charisma" and "charm" put him in the front-running to be elected as president of Hell.
Hamlet's father.
#31

re: John Edwards is Evil

Everyone hates a Trial Lawyer... until THEY need one.
There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered. - Nelson Mandela
#32

re: John Edwards is Evil

Plum - I agree with you. I do not have nearly as many problems with Kerry's character than the other 3 people involved in this race. I was merely discussing the differences between the two people present at the debate last night.

jrb_actor - I posted this link because you asked earlier for some sort of proof, and this article was the best I could find on short notice. And you're correct. My statements on Cheney are probably more polite than they should be. As I have admitted already, I am biased on this matter, so my opinions might be tainted. I acknowledge that Cheney has lied. I acknowledge that things Cheney has done have lead members of the armed forces into battles that have caused their deaths (although this has not been Cheney's work single-handedly by any means). I also know of more than one doctor that has committed suicide from the shame of losing a malpractice case that shouldn't have been lost. Remember that the lies Edwards tells kill people too.
I starred in a short film called Magnetic Personality. Check it out!
#33

re: John Edwards is Evil

1000 trial lawyers at the bottom of the sea.

And flowery's last sentence is too true.
Hamlet's father.
#34

re: John Edwards is Evil

Here's the really sad thing.

I know that I could never run for office heres why:

1) The costs. To file to be on the ballot for the primary for Representative to the US House of Representatives in Illinois costs...$150. That's it. And you, of course have to get a certain number of signatures on a petetion. This number varies by district and the number of people there are for your party in the district.

BUT If it's a heavily desired district or "hot campaign" be ready to shell out MILLIONS for you campaign. Four years ago the Congressman from the 10th district in Illinos (Republican) announced he was retiring. Eight people ran for the NOMINATION to replace him. Keep in mind this is an 85% Republican district. Three of the eight spent over 20 MILLION DOLLARS. Needless the say they were the top three vote getters.

Where does it say in the Constitution that you have to be a millionare to be in Congress? Maybe I should become a trial lawyer.


2) Personal Character Attacks. I sometimes like to visit a gentleman's club. So what? Who am I hurting? Would people who were against me in a politcal campaign use that against me? You betcha. About eight years ago a female coworker got upset because I putted her on the but. In the end she agreed that it wasn't the end of the world and everyone involved went on with their lives. Would my opponents in a political campaign dig that up and use it against me? You Betcha.

They of course, would ignore the facts that I was never in my 10 years in the Navy, even close to AWOL, that the most toxic substance I've ever put into my body, inhaled or not is Vodka, and that I've never received fellatio from a subordinate.

They only care about the bad stuff.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 12:45 PM

#35

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

Too bad your guy lost again.

If Cheney tells one more lie, that nose of his is going to reach nine inches! Bwahahahaha!

That makes the debates 2-0, our side.

Looking forward to Friday!
Edwards Clear Winner of Debate
#36

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

'In building his career, Mr. Edwards underbid other lawyers to win promising clients, sifted through several dozen expert witnesses to find one who would attest to his claims'

This is true of most lawyers supporting a case. There are all kinds of reforms needed in malpractice law and the issues that are faced by most OB/GYN doctors now are very difficult but there ARE doctors and births that went wrong and need to be addressed. Having a medical and legal background, I can tell you that without looking at the merits of each of these cases, it is impossible to determine whether any or all of them were valid or invalid.

And if we are going to start pointing fingers for the practice of ethical business and law...let's look at Cheney in his Haliburton CEO days === ACKKK
"Life is a lesson in humility"
#37

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

"It is charismatic lawyers like John Edwards that hurt the practices of some of the best doctors in the country, all for the sake of money."

FF---I still love you, but you are so f***ing wrong.

Medical malpractice DOES need reform. There are some lawyers who file frivilous lawsuits. There are also doctors whose malpractice kills or harms patients.

The real culprit is the insurance companies, who gauge the doctors by jacking up insurance premiums.

My mom recently had a case that i guess you would call frivilous. A little 2 year old went into the doctor for a routine surgery. The doctors gave her 100 times the regualr dose of a certain drug. The little girl, who couldn't communicate due to mental retardation, was in excruciating pain. The parents could tell this, and informed the doctors and nurses. They did nothing. The parents asked for a urine smaple to be taken. the little girl's urine was deep maroon, a sure sign something was wrong. They did nothing. A nurse noticed that the girl was given a 100X overdoes, and showed it to the doctor. They did nothing. After a tremendous amount of time in extreme pain, the little girl died.

Are you telling me that these doctors, the nurses and the hospital shouldn't be held accountable, and that my mom was solely in it for the verdict?

"It is charismatic lawyers like John Edwards that hurt the practices of some of the best doctors in the country, all for the sake of money."

No, it is charasmatic lawayers like John Edwards who help us get the best healthcare possible, by holding doctors accountable.

I am all for medical malpractice reform, but we need to go after the insurance companies, they are the real enemy.

And John Edwards is one of the kindest, most humble people I have ever known or met.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 04:43 PM

#38

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

I have to agree that insurance companies, especially medical insurance companies are as Helen Hunt said in As Good as It Gets.. "Fvckin HMO Bastard Peices of Shat!"
#39

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

Insurance is just a completely screwed up business right now, with premiums going up far faster than health care costs. And no, further marketization isn't necessarily going to help there. Yet another way I disagree with the Bushies.

I read some Milton Freedman a couple of nights ago- supposedly he's their economic guru. And now I know exactly where they get their idiocy.
#40

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

From what I have heard, the insurance companies have lots of lobbying power in the government with lots of money going in politician pockets. When anyone has tried to attempt insurance reform, they basically fail because the insurance companies have such a tight grip on Congress. Their accounting practices aren't even monitored as far as I know.
My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 05:17 PM

#41

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

Dems and Reps won't even hint at going after the insurance companies, because they get an awful lot of money from them.


Serve the people? psh...Not today's politicians

It is sickening.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 05:19 PM

#42

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

With enough support, even the most powerful lobbies can be defeated. We probably need a symbol, kind of like people who get shot and inspire gun-control bills. Anybody know an adorable little girl (preferably white and blond) or a family member of a Congressman who's getting screwed over by insurance?

Cynical, I know, but it's true. Little blond girls get all the attention when they're kidnapped, too.
#43

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

Wasn't Mccain for insurance reform? Or was it Clinton? I can't remember.
My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...
#44

Dick Cheney Is a Lying Liar

"... and I have to tell you right now — i didn't plan to talk about this — right now i feel her. i feel her presence. she's inside me, and she's talking to you".

is john edwards...crossing over?
#45

Unadulterated Loathing

StickToPriest, I knew you'd show up on this thread sooner or later.

I know that your mother is a malpractice lawyer. I do not think that all malpractice lawyers are bad people, or that all malpractice suits are unfounded. I never claimed that. I have had a relative die due to errors on the part of a doctor, so I am by no means claiming that those in the medical profession are infallible. They're not. And some of them, like some trial lawyers, are in it for the money.

Most people selected for malpractice juries know very little about human medicine. Therefore, charm can get a trial lawyer a long way - at times further than facts can. I've spoken to lawyers about this that agree with me, and it's entirely possible that your mother would see where I'm coming from with that statement. When charisma has more power in the courtroom than fact, the people that suffer are the doctors that did nothing wrong, because facts alone are not enough to condemn them.

Many of the cases that Edwards has fought are ones that other lawyers would not take, because they were deemed unwinnable. He won several with cheap tricks, such as speaking on behalf of an unborn child as the article mentioned. He does anything he can to get the sympathy of the jury. That's the way a lot of successful lawyers handle things. And as I thought was very evident in last night's debate, Edwards often finds ways to talk about things that make him seem like a really good guy, but all he's doing is avoiding the facts. A personal story about a financially unstable childhood does get sympathy from the American public, but it does not make him a more viable candidate.

I agree that medical malpractice suits need reform.
I agree that insurance companies need to be fought.

As I said before, the doctor I'm related to serves on the Federation of State Medical Boards. Part of their job is to decide whether or not doctors who have been sued for malpractice should be fined, or have their licenses suspended or revoked. The medical boards do a damn good job of getting licenses out of the hands of people who should not be doctors. They are very hard on other doctors, because they don't want anything potentially harmful to happen to patients.

You stated that John Edwards is improving healthcare by "holding doctors accountable". How many doctors do you know on a friendly, personal basis? I've known many in my lifetime, and I guarantee you that about 90% of them put their patients first. (Most of the other 10% I've met, I don't know enough about to judge their practices. I've only met three doctors who I felt were in it for the wrong reasons). Not only do they hold each other accountable if things go wrong, they hold THEMSELVES accountable. They blame themselves, even in situations where they are not at fault. They would do anything in their power to not let bad things happen to their patients, because they genuinely care.

I spent the summer sorting medical records. I have seen files in which the doctors write things like, "going to a baptism tomorrow. Godmother to her sister's baby girl, Elise" and "taking night classes at community college. Up all night studying for physics exam." Doctors don't write that stuff down because it might alter the results of an x-ray. They write it down because they care about their patients and want to know them as people. If you have ever taken a psychology class, you might recall that dehumanizing people makes you care less about them. These doctors do the opposite. They care much more about their patients than you know.

Sometimes things happen in the operating room that aren't supposed to happen. Most of the time, it is because something was unpredictable happened, like the patient threw a clot. It is completely out of the doctors' hands, and yet the grieving feel the need to blame someone (also something you might remember from psychology).

The treatment of the young girl in your story is horrible and I whole-heartedly agree that things like that should be fought against. I think it was unfair of you to state that I would probably call it "frivilous", as the case I used as an example was obviously of an entirely different nature. Please do not attempt to feed me my opinions in the future. There are many cases of malpractice that are worth fighting.

But there is a line. All too often, doctors are blamed for tragic events that they are not responsible for. From the research I've done on this (I admit that my research is not as extensive as it could be, but I have looked into this on more than one occasion) I have found that the number of malpractice suits that are based on nothing is rising. Why should the doctors that are doing the right things for the right reasons be attacked because of a few bad apples in the field?

I still love you Priest, but I am not f***ing wrong.
I starred in a short film called Magnetic Personality. Check it out!

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 07:31 PM

#46

Unadulterated Loathing

I completely agree that 90%, if not more, doctors care deeply about their patients. I also agree that some fine doctors make mistakes.

But, the reform and medical malpractice caps that are being pushed, and have already passed in many states, does nothing to stop the frivilous cases. It merely stops suits that have true weight and merit. In Texas, such a cap was recently passed. I find it hard to believe that the life of a child is only worth $250,000 to the state.

And many of these lawyers are not in it for the money, nor do I beleive was Edwards. Large verdicts make doctors more aware of what can go wrong, and makes them more wary. Also, the verdicts often lead to warnings on things such as prescription drugs, to prevent other deaths, etc.

And yes, i do know many many doctors personally. My uncle and aunt are both doctors, and are wonderful people.

But there are some doctors who need to be accountable for their mistakes. Just like there are many asshole medical malpractice attourneys who just want to make a quick buck.

We just need smarter juries, but THAT'S never gonna happen.

"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 07:41 PM

#47

Unadulterated Loathing

Well duh! That's because the lawyers want a jury that they think will be most malleable to their cause! (My mom was just called up for jury duty and she was worried she would get assigned to a murder case. I reminded her that she was anti-death penalty and as soon as they found that out she would've been dismissed quickly.) I know there are good lawyers out there. I know one in particular who could be very VERY rich right now but he does so much pro bono and doesn't charge that much and he lives like an average middle class american.
My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...
#48

Unadulterated Loathing

Priest -
First of all, I'd like to thank you for discussing this respectfully with me. I'm glad that I have the oppourtunity to see the opposite view without it turning into a pathetic caps-locked online yelling match. Unadulterated Loathing


I agree that the reform actions that have been taken on malpractice issues are not appropriate ones and are not working.

I agree with you that many lawyers (I'd even say most lawyers) are not in it for the money.

I have disliked Edwards and his tactics in malpractice cases since before he had even announced his bid for candidacy. Was he in it for money? I can't say. I don't know him. Was he in it to win cases? Yes. I believe he was. Did he take on cases that he shouldn't have? Yes. He did. And from what I've read, those cases outnumber the justified ones.

Some doctors do indeed need to be held accountable for their mistakes. I just feel that the majority of the doctors that Edwards has fought against are not those doctors.

I agree with the point that we need smarter juries, but they will never come into being. Obviously, Gunn agrees as well. Although I think I would be a good jury member (as I always do my best to see both sides of everything and consider all the facts before making a decision), I doubt that I will ever get the chance to test it. I would never be put on a malpractice suit (obvious reasons). I would never be put on a domestic violence case (because I've known women and children in this situation). I would not be put on a murder case (because I don't believe in the death penalty and I've watched a lot of The Sopranos, The Godfather, Boondock Saints, etc). And from what I've heard, the fact that I have been blessed with the oppourtunity to have a college education makes me a less desirable juror as well.


"Large verdicts make doctors more aware of what can go wrong, and makes them more wary. Also, the verdicts often lead to warnings on things such as prescription drugs, to prevent other deaths, etc.

This is an excellent point that I have not really considered. Thank you for bringing it up. I will not attempt to argue on this point.


Priest, you are forcing me to reevaluate my opinions of malpractice cases, and I appreciate that. If you run across any evidence stating that I am wrong about the cases that Senator Edwards has taken on, please send it on. Anything that would lessen my hatred for him would help to alleviate my guilt if I should decide to vote for Kerry in a few weeks.
I starred in a short film called Magnetic Personality. Check it out!

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 08:40 PM

#49

Unadulterated Loathing

I think that the cases you tend to hear about with Edwards are the not-so-nice ones. I mean, who's bringing it up? The Republicans, right? Bias rears its ugly head again. Always consider the source of your information as well as the information itself.

And I speak as someone with very few doctors and no lawyers in her family. (And I'm Jewish, too. Weird, huh?)

Updated On: 10/6/04 at 09:12 PM

#50

Unadulterated Loathing

You're right, Plum.
But since I've actually been seeking out evidence to the opposite, and it's not like I'm just going off of what I've heard from the media, I'm not sure that this is something that can be entirely blamed on a Republican media bias.
I starred in a short film called Magnetic Personality. Check it out!

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