Kerry Defends Himself Again Swift Boat Liars

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 1:05pm

...and blasts Bush for having the vets "do his dirty work."
AP Article

[SamIAm]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 5:43pm

The guy who is the highest ranking officer in the Swift Boat anti Kerry ad...was investigated by some journalists who announced today that his records show that he NOMINATED Kerry for valor awards and in his written report said they were under fire when he is saying in the ad that they were NEVER under fire and Kerry was a coward...so how come YOU nominated him for the valor award BUSTER???? I'm sick of all of this crap and hope it goes away soon.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 5:51pm

I swear to God I read this thread thinking of Kerry Butler and wondering why anyone would care what she said about it. Man, is it past time for me to go home.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 5:56pm

Kerry has thus far run an unusually clean campaign, with very little mudslinging from his camp. While I like the fact that he'd rather take the high road, it's going to get him killed in the election. I think it's high time for him to take off the gloves and tear into Bush, because God knows Kerry's been shredded plenty since his campaign started.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 5:57pm

Wait for the debates to start. I think he'll bring it.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 5:58pm

God, I hope you're right, Matt.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 6:56pm

It's really unconscionable for the Republicans to throw money at these vets and push them to hurl false allegagations that Bush and Cheney themselves are clearly too embarrassed to speak outloud. (Bush, of course, was a deserter and Cheney was a draft dodger.)

These vets may be emotionally scarred themselves, left with residual anger at soldiers like Kerry who fought valiantly but came to condemn a war we all now condemn.

Yet the Republicans continue to throw money at them, manipulating them to act out on their anger. Bush, Cheney and Rove show more disrepect to the vets than Kerry's 1970 testimony in Congress could ever have showed.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 7:04pm

a war we all now condemn

i don't think that everyone on earth would agree with that, pal.

where were you on christmas in '68? in cambodia with johnny boy reflecting on lies as yet untold by a president as yet un-inaugurated?

Updated On: 8/19/04 at 07:04 PM

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 7:48pm

"Kerry has thus far run an unusually clean campaign, with very little mudslinging from his camp. "


Good heavens! Which channel have you been watching? His freaking whole campaign is anti bush, or was until the past month or so. I'm thinking his advisor whispered in his ear, "sir, you really need to start thinking about an actual platform..." And he made one up.

And i hate to cast doubt upon your stance, but i was listening to NPR (which is a mainly liberal sation, i think) today and they interviewed a few guys who all say Kerry was lying. Now, i dont support bush, but i dont support Kerry either. I think they both are misleading. People need to quit blindly following Kerry just because they dont like bush.

Just as Conan O'Brien once eloquently stated:

KERRY.
Isn't that a girl's name?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 9:20pm

Kerry hasn't lied. He was indeed in Cambodia that Christmas and New Year's, as were other US forces. It was illegal, but so are a lot of things that happen in war. Calling him a liar is just telling lies, just like the shameful Swift Boat liars are doing.

I was studying for my bar mitzvah, Papa. Where were you?

[StrStruckDreamr9]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 9:25pm

Whether the accusations in this commercial are true or not, we will never know for sure. We can know, however, that it was unabashedly vicious and, in my opinion, inappropriate. I agree with bobrunstheshow about the absurdity of voting for Kerry solely to avoid voting for Bush. Another, equally absurd story: I was reading Entertainment Weekly several weeks ago when someone wrote in that they would vote for Bush to spite Michael Moore. Honestly, these are not the reasons to vote for a specific candidate. I am somewhat worried about the people voting in this election and the results that ensue.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 9:37pm

Drudge is reporting that the full story of the shameful exploitation of the Swift Boat veterans by the Republican party and the Bush administration is the lead article on the front page of Friday's NY Times.

Apparently the article will tell "the story of how Swift Boat veterans with a grievance were found by Republicans looking to tarnish Kerry's image," according to Drudge, who usuallly favors the conservative side of things. He says the Times reporter calls it "a modern day tale of the creation of a political attack machine."

Those of you who are too young to remember Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" are about to see Americian politics--and the Republican party--at their most vile.

Those of us who are old enough to remember will get sad and angry again.

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 10:36pm

Yes, those evil Repubs! Why can't they be flawless like the Democrats???

[Plum]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 10:42pm

No one's saying Democrats are saints. But that doesn't change that what these particular Republicans did was downright awful, even by political standards.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 7:46am

Here's the link to the New York Times article. (You might need free registration.)
Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Anti-Kerry Ad

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 10:08am

pal, the lies i was referencing were nixon's, just as johnny did. nixon, who hadn't yet taken office in christmas of '68 (at which time i was not even a though on my parents' mind).

leaving aside the formalities of fact and fiction for a moment, and speaking objectively, i think kerry made a huge, h-u-g-e, mistake trying to tie bush to this group the way he did. regardless of who knows whom and who is involved with whom, he has opened himself up to be waylaid. he's basically said it's fair game to tie the candidate to the 527's of which there are a whole lot more democratic than republican (and they have made a whole lot more ads, which means more fodder). granted, the gop did made the point earlier in the game, but not with the candidate doing so. i don't think that strategically that was the best way to refute the charges.

Updated On: 8/20/04 at 10:08 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 10:46am

I think the charges have already been nullified.

The book is a fraud and a tissue of lies and unprovable assertions, and the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of Karl Rove, who decided that still-bitter Vietnam vets should be manipulated to keep Bush in the White House. Shame, shame, shame.

The military is NOT standing behind the president. Norman Schwarzkopf is the latest high-ranking military man to say that he would NOT support George Bush for another term.

Going away for the weekend, so feel free to have your way with this thread.

Updated On: 8/20/04 at 10:46 AM

[robbiej]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 10:52am

papa,

what the f*ck is wrong with you???

it's 'who is involved with whoM'!!!!

they don't learn you good English in Republand?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 10:54am

where did stormin' norman come out against li'l georgie?

regardless of whether they are a tissue of lies, the charges have not been nullified. the fact that kerry felt the need to take to the podium to refute them is proof positive of that. also, by taking the podium himself he makes them even bigger than they were.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 11:00am

you f***ing b*tch, robbie! i will so pluck out your pubes one by one with a pair of f***ing tweezers if you ever question my grammar again, you pompous windbag!





quietly going back to correct grammar and remind self to read post before hitting return.

Updated On: 8/20/04 at 11:00 AM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 11:03am

Papa needs a grammar spanking.

[Sunfish]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 11:06am

I think the fact that Kerry denounced the moveon.org ad that discussed Bush's spotty Texas Air National Guard service, and that Bush will only generally mention "all 527's" says something regarding character. Kerry is willing to denounce that which is dishonorable even though it may benefit him. Bush is not. That DOES say it all, doesn't it????

I find it amusing and sad that the SBV members of the swift boat "situation" have medals where the citations also refer to enemy fire. Now they are saying that somehow John Kerry contributed to writing up THEIR citations? Honorable men with true conviction would then return those medals, wouldn't they? If they didn't really earn them? As they allege John Kerry did not?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 6:08pm

For those interested, here's the link to the NY Times chart that details the connections between the Swift Boat liars and the White House and the contradictions between their present claims and previous support they had for Kerry.

It's disgusting to think the White House (Karl Rove) would maniplulate these men.

It's also against the law.
Connections and Contradictions

[Auggie27]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 6:21pm

I seldom agree with Papa on matters political, and I certainly sit on the opposite side of the aisle ... but he's right. I think Kerry should take the highER road here, not stamp his foot and play the wounded wounded. The ads exist, and have done their damage -- but only among those who want the damage done. The polls are lining up -- gasp! -- along party lines (the Annenburg group has determined). So those of us who'll vote against Bush, er, I mean for Kerry, will do so no matter what the 527 di giorno says. Teresa could put liberal mind-warping pellets in her tomato stuff (by the way -- how many varieties are there? 527?! Hmmmm), we'll still vote the way we're voting. Same will be true of the folks who think Michael Moore should be charged with treason (and yes, there are people who've said as much. He has death threats.) Dirty biz as usual. Just wait until September/October.

Kerry should rise WAY above, and simply be the man to take us AWAY from the Viet Nam debate. I've felt he made a tactical error when he turned the Democratic convention into a war reunion. The salute was hardly the symbol I wanted to see, as an anti-Iraq Democrat, and I think he opted for a Bush-determed iconic military image. ("If you can land on a boat ... I can put a chorus of stout-hearted men behind ME!") Call me quirky, and a sissy (proud to to be one), but I like Kerry "nuanced," and playing the solider card just makes it about two boys on the playground playing war. This gave them an opening, and by George, do not excuse this expression,they ran with it.

Updated On: 8/20/04 at 06:21 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 8/20/04 at 6:42pm

Making this a debate about Vietnam is also a great way for both candidates to alienate young voters- who quite frankly, weren't alive then and couldn't care less. This is about today, and the problems we have because of the current President's actions.

And you know Bush might have a problem when friggin' Tom Clancy, the king of terrorism-and-retaliation scenarios, says he doesn't like the Iraq war.