Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
#1Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 3:54pmThis *finally* opened here in town (dubbed only, but as usual Disney did a good job with the dub.) As expected, I loved it... Have others here seen it? I would love, in particular to read views from people who don't know most of Hayao's work.
#2Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 4:18pm
I saw it on Thursday. As a fan of Miyazaki, I actually was pretty disappointed. I found it ponderously slow and unfocused- not to mention the English voice actors were not very strong (Joseph Gordon-Levitt in particular).
#2Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 4:38pmI think I had read so much about it that I knew what to expect. It's interesting because subject matter wise, this is the kinda thing Takahata handles better than Miyazaki in terms of the two main Studio Ghibli directors (ie Only Yesterday or even Grave of the Fireflies.) But it is obvious why the story appealed to Miyazaki, especially with his connection to flying.
#3Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 4:41pmAnd I realize my post really said nothing of my opinion. I loved it, but more for the moments I come to expect from his films--the rustic scenes, the sense of feeling the wind, etc. It would never be my choice of a film to introduce someone to his work. That said I find the initial controversy about the war aspects pretty inane.
#4Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 7:32pmIt's definitely a departure for Miyazaki -- much slower than his other films -- but I found it absolutely gorgeous.
#5Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 7:37pm
In many ways, I felt like it was a pastiche of Miyazaki- flying sequences, rustic Japan, shots of nature, the theme of traditional vs. modern Japan, a noble and pure protagonist, etc. I also was surprised that the main female character was such a cliche, considering Miyazaki's strong, complex females in the past.
I know there's been some discussion of the war aspects- I have to say that I didn't think the film really adequately addressed the destruction the planes wrought- or that this was their express purpose. Obviously, Miyazaki latched onto Horikoshi's quote about wanting to design something beautiful. Ultimately, the irony of the beautiful things being used in kamikaze attacks, the attack on Pearl Harbor, and bombing runs in China was uncomfortably handled, I thought.
#6Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 8:00pmI dunno, I think Miyazaki simply didn't want to deal with that aspect at all really. And why should he? But of course he still does, and while I didn't find it offensive like some, I did feel that the way it was handled was the least satisfying aspect of the film.
#7Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 8:38pmWell, it's certainly worth addressing: the man wasn't just designing planes, he was designing planes that were going to be used in war.
#8Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/9/14 at 8:40pmIt was better than Ponyo! but very different from his fantasy anime. I really didn't want to go because of the subject matter--just not my thing--but my daughter dragged me to it. I liked it better than I thought I would, and I understand why he perhaps glossed over the horrors of the war as he was foucusing on the creative aspect of flight. When Horikoshi said something like "none of them came back" that was very telling and I'm glad we didn't witness the actual killings. I wanted to know more about his friend and the quickie marriage, but we did like the movie over-all, but didn't love it like Spirited away or Totoro. I was very concerned with the *****spoiler***** girlfriend/wife infecting people as she traveled. It really bothered me.
#9Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/12/14 at 11:00pm
I went and saw this again last night. I've fully come around and think it's actually a pretty great film, and a fitting end to Hayao's career--if it happens to be.
Kad, I would argue both leads are cyphers--but you're right, particularly Naoko. It doesn't matter to me. This is a work that covers so much, in such fine and complex detail, that the characters almost have to be.
I think what made me change my mind so much was the completely ambiguous morality that they show in Hoshi. He knows that his passion will cause death--both with his obsession with planes, and in his romantic life. I prefer the subtitled version I watched before, but I think Joseph's oddly deadpan voice really works for the character.
It's an odd film. But nearly all of Miyazaki's films are odd. Ponyo was criticized for being a less perfect children's film than Totoro. Howl's Moving Castle (which also shared war imagery) was called out for being less clear in its message than Spirited Away. Even Princess Mononoke, which was released before Miyazaki was well known here, suffered similar comparisons with the film of Nausicaa (Nausicaa's much, much longer original manga, on the other hand, basically spelled out Mononoke's plot.)
The set pieces are muted, but gorgeous--like the paper airplane flight. The romance is played in such broad strokes, but is still moving--I particularly love when Hoshi's sister, now an adult doctor, just opens up and *cries*.
I think Miya's ideas about war are perfectly clear. The film is ambiguous about the characters' opinions of it--they have a job, and the job involves killing people ultimately, something hey talk about in a casual but still resentful way--but Miya shows the trues cost of that.
The ending is perfect.
No, it's not my favorite of his films, and it wouldn't be a film I'd want someone who didn't know at least three of his other best films (for my money Totoro, Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke) to see as their first exposure to him. But it's a perfect apotheosis to one of the best *movie* director's careers.
#10Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 12:29amI think to understand why Miyazaki made the movie the way he did but did not provide a full scope onto his subject or Japan is to understand how Japan has presented the war. Miyazaki was 4 upon Japanese surrender so I am assuming his education had something skewed. I'll leave it there as I only know second-hand details but let's just say Japan is not like Germany who have raised their people to apologize at any given opportunity for the war. The Chinese-Japanese relations in particular on this topic is a pretty intense one and that is where a lot of the loudest detractors came from.
#11Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 5:32pm
Strummer, for once I don't think we fully agree. Or maybe I just mis-read you. I think the film actually DOES, in an ambiguous and complex way, condemn the war full out.
Have you read this well done article about Miyazaki and all his very public issues with the relationship between Japan and the war (including the release of their magazine devoted to it when the film came out?) http://www.japanfocus.org/events/view/189
#12Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 5:37pmStrummer--did you post about the film in another thread? I'd be interested in reading more of your thoughts.
#13Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 6:02pm
Miyazaki doesn't shy away from pacifist sentiment in his films. I'm not saying the film was pro-war... but rather sidestepped it to focus on a particular theme. But that theme enabled the march to war.
#14Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 8:15pmOK, I don`t disagree with anything in that comment then :P I guess I was more reacting to the bizarre take some have had--ie in Japan some have called it Ànti-Japan`because of the small anti war sentiments--and then in the US you have that critic in Boston who walked out in a huff when it won an award because he said it was promoting the Japanese war as a good thing.
#15Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 8:31pm
I would certainly understand people outraged about the film- but not being pro-war, but rather.. well, possibly insensitive to it. It's essentially a (heavily fictionalized) hagiography of a man who designed machines of war, and portrays him as a noble hero for wanting to create something beautiful. It never really fully addresses the fact his beautiful creations are created specifically for dropping bombs and.... and later, become bombs themselves.
There's no real conflict for Horikoshi in that regard. He never grapples with the fact he wants to design airplanes, but can only do so by designing bombers and fighters. He never grapples with the fact that by designing a beautiful machine, he's enabling destruction.
Miyazaki is known for multifaceted, complex, dynamic characters- and Horikoshi just isn't one.
#16Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 8:51pmNeither protagonist (if Naoko even counts) is, I agree. But I think the film does, subtly grapple with those issues--I absolutely agree with you, though to be fair that was after re-watching it, I didn't feel that way the first time I watched it. Hoshi does himself state his dissatisfaction with it all but then basically says "but what can ya do." However the film itself, IMHO makes it clear that people are meant to think about whether it IS worth it to "live in a world with pyramids." In no way does it endorse the fact that, because characters decide it is, the film agrees.
#17Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 8:53pmI guess that could be seen as lazy, but I found it intriguing. Miyazaki has been ambiguous before in film (usually about environmental concerns vs man's progress although there as well anyone who has read any interviews knows what side he himself is on.) This was just a projection of that, albeit one that many people would find more loaded I wager.
#18Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 9:17pm
Eric, I actually haven't had the privilege to see it, it's playing nowhere near me, so I am just looking at the fact that Miyazaki being from a certain generation and Japanese culture.
The critic who decried the film winning among Boston Critics was actually Inkoo Kang, a young female critic for the Village Voice/LA Weekly. She actually called everybody in the room who voted for it amoral and still stands by that statement.
"There's no real conflict for Horikoshi in that regard. He never grapples with the fact he wants to design airplanes, but can only do so by designing bombers and fighters. He never grapples with the fact that by designing a beautiful machine, he's enabling destruction."
And once again, in playing the dangerous game of judging sight unseen, did the actual real person grapple or face a J. Robert Oppenheimer like retrospective shame for what he did? I think the question is if Miyazaki brought up these questions. Many of the better biopics can still have these problematic, complex characters but also balance these questions.
#19Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 9:34pm
To be fair, he's been very clear it's not a biopic, that he merged two figures (ie the TB storyline comes from the poet/other designer he used) Frankly, he probably should have changed the name. But no, to the best of my awareness the real Hoshi never expressed any of those opinions (he was known, however, to be very war neutral at any rate, not that that means much.)
I think Miyazaki raises interesting questions and I would go as far as to say that if he were a live action director, less known for his family films or a genre associated with family movies, people would appreciate that a lot more. One critic (NYT?) actually said that the film meditates on uncomfortable and complex issues the way many other great directors have late in their careers, and never offers a solution, and I agree with that. (For example is Hoshi merely using Naoko's grant 19th Century love?)
As for the critic's point--I think in a way that IS the point. He *does* slightly grapple with it, like I said, but not very much. And that's how the majority of people in those situations behaved at the time. I don't think Miya wants us to see him as a hero the way, say, Nausicaa clearly is, whatsoever. I think it's unfair, frankly, to expect that the film has to make him one--I'd go as far as to say that that's an expectation placed on it because it's an animated film from Ghibli.
I really hope you get to see it--whether you like it or not. I I knew you lived in a place that wasn't good for movies, to put it mildly, but I thought the fact that the dub had gotten a wide release of 500 or so screens meant it would play by you.
#20Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 9:36pmThere's a scene where Hori sees three kids who are starving because of how hard their parents have to work in Japan's devastating economy of the time, and offers them food. They don't trust him and run away, and he's hurt by it. But his roommate (one of the best characters in the film) points out how naive Hori is of the whole situation. That basically says it all, IMHO, in a far from obvious, and very straightforwardly presented moment.
AlfieByrne
Stand-by Joined: 8/12/09
#21Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 9:49pm
I believe many of the historical shallow critiques is indeed quite problematic as it simply follows the common “Japan was bad; Korea and China were the actual victims” narrative that oversimplifies the history quite a bit, (which is exactly what Japan is also guilty of when discussing history.) It’s not as simple as attributing the nationality of a person to which was good vs bad. You’d be highly underestimating the general population if you think the war references weren’t obvious enough. And plus there are just SO MANY viewpoints and experiences of the war. Yes, Miyazaki may not have mentioned every victims of the era in his film but does he tout that Jiro’s story is the definitive representation of the years preceding WWII? No. Some may want to argue for that for the sake of furthering their denouncement of this film, but you’d be narrowing your vision. I think that this film is fascinating by truly exposing the controversial historical figure (through fictionalized plot) by delving into WHY he made what he made. It's an alarming warning, I think, to what could happen when you follow your dreams. Miyazaki’s latest work is one that is carefully scripted to place the story of Jiro within the context of the war. As such, the dawn of the war becomes a landscape to develop why Jiro did what he did — to create “a world with Pyramids” instead of one without. (The line “Do you prefer a world with pyramids, or with no pyramids?” ranks amongst one of the heaviest questions asked in the history of film in my view.)
Upon initial viewing, I thought that, yes, the romance was predictable and the main character having no personality. But that’s where Miyazaki’s nuance really shines, I’ve come to realize. And the characters were definitely a product of their time and place in the society. Everything had this element of formality, *SPOILER* even the need to get married in order to live together at the house of Jiro's boss *END SPOILER*
In the industry today where complex twists and caricatures with slight depth are deemed Oscar-worthy, I think it was refreshing to let the simplicity in Miyazaki’s work speak for itself.
#22Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/13/14 at 9:56pm
Thank you Alfie! You basically said, much more eloquently, what I was trying to.
I think it's an amazing film and filled with hidden depth and questions that, as I've admitted, I didn't even get on first viewing (where I admit a couple of times I thought "wow, I coulda cut a few minutes off of these endless airplane designing/building scenes") Even, as you say, the operatic simplicity of the love story fits into that. (I also love that it has those random moments that Miya seems to throw into his more personal films--like the German stranger that Werner Herzog voiced in the dub [!] at the resort and the perfect little showpiece with the paper airplane.)
I know it's become a bit of a prestige thing to do a voice in a Ghibli dub now, and actors work for next to nothing, but the cast list of the Wind dub is pretty amazing/bizarre. I didn't recognize Mandy Patinkin whatsoever, and apparently Ronan Farrow did a voice of some extremely minor character...
#23Miyazaki's The Wind Rises
Posted: 3/14/14 at 12:36am
This cast list (and to a lesser extent, Ponyo, too) is a grab-bag of recognizable names. However, and I thought this about Ponyo- the voice acting is all over the place. The issue with hiring nothing but recognizable names is that you're not hiring voice actors. Not every actor can be a convincing voice actor. I thought the most successful voice acting in The Wind Rises came from Martin Short, as the short and short-tempered (but ultimately sympathetic) boss- because he has a certain 'bigness' needed for voice acting and has experience doing it.
I thought the most successful aspect of the film was its depiction of Japan as a growing country. The changing backgrounds, as Japan modernized, rebuilt, fell on hard times, and tried to reconcile past and present, were more compelling than many of the plot-driven scenes.
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