NEWSWEEK: Ted Olson: The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage
#2
Posted: 1/11/10 at 8:43am
That should be required reading for everyone across the political spectrum, starting with our president.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#3
Posted: 1/11/10 at 9:29am
BRAVO!
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#4
Posted: 1/11/10 at 9:57am
Towleroad has terrific coverage on this. One of the commenters there noted that Ted Olson has won over 3/4 of his cases in the Supreme Court.
#5
Posted: 1/11/10 at 10:12am
Nicely written, well argued, and I don't believe he means a word of it.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#6
Posted: 1/11/10 at 10:14am
Isn't the case supposed to air on youtube? I couldn't find it.
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be enbered with your old nonsense. ~ Emerson
#7
Posted: 1/11/10 at 11:19am
It starts this morning in California.
#8
Posted: 1/11/10 at 11:26am
The SCOTUS just put a hold, for now at least, on televising the proceedings, even via delay on youtube. They will come a final decision to allow televising within the next few days.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#9
Posted: 1/11/10 at 11:28am
Why watch the proceedings? It's SO MUCH better to hear it re-enacted by Nina Totenburg on NPR.
#10
Posted: 1/11/10 at 12:12pm
http://firedoglake.com/prop8trial/
'There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently'
-Robert Evans-
#11
Posted: 1/11/10 at 12:58pm
FYI - the live blogging at FDL is compelling...
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#12
Posted: 1/11/10 at 2:20pm
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/us_supreme_court_throws_gay_marriage_opponents_a_temporary_bone
'There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently'
-Robert Evans-
#13
Posted: 1/11/10 at 2:48pm
According to the blogger, the lawyer defending prop 8 put a large piece of his argument behind procreation being a vital function of marriage. If that's their best argument, I like our chances.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#14
Posted: 1/11/10 at 2:54pm
Prop 8 trial on twitter
http://twitter.com/FedcourtJunkie
http://twitter.com/theadvocatemag
http://twitter.com/ACLU_NorCal
http://twitter.com/AmerEqualRights
http://twitter.com/FedcourtJunkie
http://twitter.com/theadvocatemag
http://twitter.com/ACLU_NorCal
http://twitter.com/AmerEqualRights
'There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently'
-Robert Evans-
Updated On: 1/11/10 at 02:54 PM
#15
Posted: 1/11/10 at 3:05pm
It's basically everything that's been said before by every liberal arguing for gay marriage. I hoped he would argue from the perspective of conservative principles, specifically smaller government, instead of resorting to the same arguments that have been made for years- and summarily ignored- by conservatives. By the end, I was surprised he hadn't regurgitated "It's not natural- like eyeglasses" and "Leviticus prohibits wearing polyester and eating shellfish too!"
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#16
Posted: 1/11/10 at 3:51pm
It won't be enough to sway the Supremes. Bigotry isn't about reasoned argument, it is just about HATE.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#17
Posted: 1/11/10 at 5:20pm
This is from last May but found it interesting.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/05/gay-rights-groups-ted-olson-thanks-no-thanks
http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/05/gay-rights-groups-ted-olson-thanks-no-thanks
'There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently'
-Robert Evans-
#18
Posted: 1/11/10 at 5:44pm
They've kissed and made up now. The gay groups are participating as amici curiae.
#19
Posted: 1/11/10 at 6:18pm
It's basically everything that's been said before by every liberal arguing for gay marriage.
Agreed. I was disappointed after reading it because the title didn't match the piece. I've read similar (and more convincing) arguments on plenty of liberal blogs.
I think most conservatives will write it off as either a conservative with a liberal argument or a fake conservative. It's not an inherently liberal argument, but it's inherently non-partisan. To be effective I think it needed to be a legitimate conservative argument. ie, more pandering.
Agreed. I was disappointed after reading it because the title didn't match the piece. I've read similar (and more convincing) arguments on plenty of liberal blogs.
I think most conservatives will write it off as either a conservative with a liberal argument or a fake conservative. It's not an inherently liberal argument, but it's inherently non-partisan. To be effective I think it needed to be a legitimate conservative argument. ie, more pandering.
#20
Posted: 1/11/10 at 6:42pm
I'm glad other people said it before I did, or I'd be called negative and contrarian, but yeah, I don't see what's the big deal about this.
#21
Posted: 1/11/10 at 8:16pm
Ted Olson's opening statement.
It might have been said before, but never in this context and never with such ramifications.
From Olson's opening statement.
===
The plaintiffs are two loving couples, American citizens, entitled to equality and due process under our Constitution. They are in deeply committed, intimate, and longstanding relationships. They want to marry the person they love; to enter into that “most important relation in life”; to share their dreams with their partners; and to confer the many benefits of marriage on their families.
But Proposition 8 singled out gay men and lesbians as a class, swept away their right to marry, pronounced them unequal, and declared their relationships inferior and less-deserving of respect and dignity.
In the words of the California Supreme Court, eliminating the right of individuals to marry a same-sex partner relegated those individuals to “second class” citizenship, and told them, their families and their neighbors that their love and desire for a sanctioned marital partnership was not worthy of recognition.
Text of Ted Olson’s Opening Statement in Prop. 8 Trial – As Prepared
It might have been said before, but never in this context and never with such ramifications.
From Olson's opening statement.
===
The plaintiffs are two loving couples, American citizens, entitled to equality and due process under our Constitution. They are in deeply committed, intimate, and longstanding relationships. They want to marry the person they love; to enter into that “most important relation in life”; to share their dreams with their partners; and to confer the many benefits of marriage on their families.
But Proposition 8 singled out gay men and lesbians as a class, swept away their right to marry, pronounced them unequal, and declared their relationships inferior and less-deserving of respect and dignity.
In the words of the California Supreme Court, eliminating the right of individuals to marry a same-sex partner relegated those individuals to “second class” citizenship, and told them, their families and their neighbors that their love and desire for a sanctioned marital partnership was not worthy of recognition.
Text of Ted Olson’s Opening Statement in Prop. 8 Trial – As Prepared
#22
Posted: 1/12/10 at 10:39am
The New Yorker has a huge article, but this is the best section:
===
One of the arguments that the anti-gay-marriage side has increasingly turned to outside the courtroom is that allowing same-sex marriage would hurt heterosexual marriage. At the pretrial hearing, Judge Walker kept asking Charles Cooper, the lawyer defending Proposition 8, how exactly it did so. "I’m asking you to tell me," he said at last, "how it would harm opposite-sex marriages."
"All right," Cooper said.
"All right," Walker said. Let’s play on the same playing field for once."
There was a pause—it seemed like a long one to people in the courtroom, though it was probably only a few seconds. And Cooper said, "Your Honor, my answer is: I don’t know. I don’t know."
A Risky Proposal: Is it too soon to petition the Supreme Court on gay marriage?
===
One of the arguments that the anti-gay-marriage side has increasingly turned to outside the courtroom is that allowing same-sex marriage would hurt heterosexual marriage. At the pretrial hearing, Judge Walker kept asking Charles Cooper, the lawyer defending Proposition 8, how exactly it did so. "I’m asking you to tell me," he said at last, "how it would harm opposite-sex marriages."
"All right," Cooper said.
"All right," Walker said. Let’s play on the same playing field for once."
There was a pause—it seemed like a long one to people in the courtroom, though it was probably only a few seconds. And Cooper said, "Your Honor, my answer is: I don’t know. I don’t know."
A Risky Proposal: Is it too soon to petition the Supreme Court on gay marriage?
#23
Posted: 1/12/10 at 10:45am
Per, the smart, wonky folks at www.fivethirtyeight.com, the divorce rate in Massachusetts has DROPPED BY 21% in the five years following the legalization of gay marriage.
Gay marriage impact on divorce
Gay marriage impact on divorce
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#24
Posted: 1/21/10 at 7:29pm
Following the trial on this case has been very disturbing and enlightening. While the case is not being broadcast, FDL and Courage Campaign have been trying their best to transcribe the testimony.
Courage Campaign
Courage Campaign
#25
Posted: 1/21/10 at 10:40pm
Towleroad and Pam's Hot Blend have great coverage too.
This case has enough twists and turns and surprises for it to be made into the next Inherit the Wind.
Every day produces another jaw-dropping blockbuster development...or several!
Check out Pam's Hot Blend:
Perry v. Schwarzenegger Proceedings, Day 8
This case has enough twists and turns and surprises for it to be made into the next Inherit the Wind.
Every day produces another jaw-dropping blockbuster development...or several!
Check out Pam's Hot Blend:
Perry v. Schwarzenegger Proceedings, Day 8
BroadwayWorld TV
Ticket Central