Pope Reverses Vatican II

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Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:39am

Catholics now to pray for the conversion of the Jews.

===

Pope Angers Jews, Liberals With Rite

Conservatives Rejoice as Pontiff Revives Old Latin Mass

By NICOLE WINFIELD, AP
Posted: 2007-07-07 23:16:06

VATICAN CITY (July 7) - Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday removed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass, reviving a rite that was all but swept away by the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

The decision, a victory for traditional, conservative Roman Catholics, came over the objections of liberal-minded Catholics and angered Jews because the Tridentine Mass contains a prayer for their conversion.

Pope Angers Jews, Liberals With Rite

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:43am

this is terrible news...

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:59am

Asshole.

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:03am

Excellent news - just what the church needs to bring back the flocks who've left in droves! When do the burnings at the stake resume?

Cheyenne Jackson tickled me. AFTER ordering SoMMS a drink but NOT tickling him, and hanging out with Girly in his dressing room (where he DIDN'T tickle her) but BEFORE we got married. To others. And then he tweeted Boobs. He also tweeted he's good friends with some chick on "The Voice" who just happens to be good friends with Tink's ex. And I'm still married. Oh, and this just in: "Pettiness, spite, malice ....Such ugly emotions... So sad." - After Eight, talking about MEEEEEEEE!!! I'm so honored! :-)

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:07am

Oh goody. Just what was needed.

I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:13am

For lack of better words,

Oh, for the love of God.

My cousin literally just texted me from outside the church the rest of my family goes to because our priest (who by the way, is the biggest idiot ever. You wouldn't even believe some of the stories) told everyone that soon they would have to pray for the conversion of the Jews. He was right. Must be a gift from God or something.

I mean, Denzel Washington? Gun to my head..of course.

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:45am

And to think people have a problem with Scientology.

PEACE.

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:57am

A bit of clarity:

1) There are several forms of the Tridentine Mass. It evolved over the centuries. (I, personally, would never attend any form offered)

2) The Tridentine form currently in use - in a very limited, restricted fashion - doesn't contain any such prayer. That monstrosity appeared in older versions.

3) The Tridentine Mass, which was forbidden since Vatican II, will now be offered only as an additional option in parishes. Lifting the ban doesn't mean that people will be forced to attend any such rite. It just means that the rite can be one of several available. I'm betting it will never be used, more than as a novelty, with American Catholics. Again, I'd never be interested.

4) The prayer for conversion - horrible intent that it was - was a part of the Tridentine service on Good Friday only during the post WWII period.

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:59am

Just when I think, I am almost ready to return, the Vatican does something like this.
It is a sad thing when RC and I are in NY for the weekend, we love going to Mass @ St. Malachy's. The priest always welcomes those of us who have felt unwelcomed for years; and remides us that the Church needs us more than we need the Church.
I really wish someone would inform the Holy See of this point.

"All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen." Conan O'Brien

#10

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:00pm

I'm never going back.

"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"

http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html

**********

"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"

~ Best12Bars

#11

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:03pm

Oh, so now we are supposed to take the word of a "Mooney"?

PEACE.

#12

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:06pm

What makes our break with the RC the hardest, is that our oldest daughter's godfather is a priest, studied at the Vatican and was made a deacon by Pope John Paul 2nd.

Updated On: 7/10/07 at 12:06 PM

#13

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:06pm

All organized religions are cults based on superstitions and folk tales. I don't know why people point and laugh at Scientology. Is it really more unbelievable then any of the other religions? To me, they are all the same and they have caused misery in the world (My God is better than your God). Believe what you want but please, keep it to yourself.

"I've lost everything! Luis, Marty, my baby with Chris, Chris himself, James. All I ever wanted was love." --Sheridan Crane "Passions" ------- "Housework is like bad sex. Every time I do it, I swear I'll never do it again til the next time company comes."--"Lulu" from "Can't Stop The Music" ----- "When the right doors didn't open for him, he went through the wrong ones" - "Sweet Bird of Youth" ------------ --------- "Passions" is uncancelled! See NBC.com for more info.

#14

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:19pm

Yes, Sue. I'm starting my own church and I was hoping you could could preach next week. I have a hair appointment.

Seriously, a lot of people here ask me how I can be a part of such a f-ed up mess. I have to reply, in all honesty, that I feel called to worship there. It's something that's very strong within me. It allows me to look past (beyond, around, behind, whatever)the institution and it's leadership - especially its current leadership. I'm not about to turn away from grace where I find it just because some freaking idiot sits in the home office in Rome. They're not getting rid of me. I answer to a higher power (me and Hebrew National hotdogs). It's kind of like being an American during a particualrly horrendous Presidential and Congressional administration ( yeah, stretch your imagination - it happens). Just because the idiots in Washington seem hell bent on destroying all that would sem just and good about the country and it's constitution, doesn't make me say, "That's it, I'm leaving. I'm not going to be an American." I wouldn't let any fool - or governing body of fools - convince me to walk away and leave the country to them.

OK, so long-winded explanation, and probably more than you ever wanted to know about me. I've just gotten blitzed by inquiring PMs (some polite, others....NOT) this morning, so I just thought I'd speak my piece.

Hope I didn't take up too much of your time......

Updated On: 7/8/07 at 12:19 PM

#15

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:20pm

my church regularly prays for the conversion of sinful commies, and paljoey.

seriously, all this does is allow priests to practice the mass without getting permission from their bishops. it's actually part of a reconciliation that started a few years ago to bring the so-called "traditionalists" back into the fold.

hell for a time, priests were being excommunicated for saying the mass and there were little outlaw parishes around the country operating under the radar.

i happen to enjoy the tridentine mass and go once a month or so to st. agnes at 11am on sunday to indulge myself. nice to be able to hear it right in the heart of manhattan. nice church, too. the first traditional church to be authorized post vatican ii (after a fire destroyed the first st. agnes which was home to bishop sheen).

r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective

#16

re: Pope Reverses Vatican II

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:20pm

Couldn't have said it better, jimnysf.

"I feel god in this chili's..."

#17

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:21pm

Thank you, Bluemoon, for expressing much more eloquently what I was struggling to write.

#18

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:26pm

I agree with Atrias. Thank you Bluemoon.

I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#19

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:31pm

You people sure like to make something out of nothing. Catholics have been praying for the conversion of all non-Catholics since, forever. This is a non-event.

#20

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:39pm

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. This is not a forced reinstatement of the Tridentine Mass, this is permission for any priest to celebrate it without the permission of their bishop. And really, in terms of beauty, the Catholic Mass needs all the help it can get.

#21

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:56pm

Add my vote of gratitude to Moony as well, many many of my friends feel the need to stay Roman Catholic, but also understand why I had to leave (something about a camel through the eye of a needle thing)

#22

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:04pm

I'm sure this news will bring Mel Gibson much happiness.
And I can't think of anything nastier to say than that.

#23

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:24pm

I'm sure that the Pope doesn't see what the fuss is about since it's not like Jews are real people...

Does anyone else think that the Pope looks like he was drawn by Gahan Wilson?

"A coherent existance after so many years of muddle" - Desiree' Armfelt, A Little Night Music "Life keeps happening everyday, Say Yes" - 70, Girls, 70 "Life is what you do while you're waiting to die" - Zorba

#24

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:26pm

I am also grateful to Bluemoon for her sincere explanation and to Papalovesmambo for his caustic one, and less so to JohnBoy for another of his habitual acts of belittlement of other people's concerns.

I take your points, Moony and Papa and Taryn, but I caution you all about coddling what Papa calls "the so-called 'traditionalists.'" These are the same people who are responsible for much of the bigotry and anti-gay policies that the present pope promulgated when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.

My reading of 20th-century Italian history tells me that if you scratch the veneers of some of these "traditionalists," you'll find the remnants of the faction at the Vatican that supported Mussolini's alliance with Hitler.

#25

pope reverses vatican ii, finally

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:45pm

With all due respect, Mooney, if/when we have a shady government/president/congress we not only have the power to remove them, but we also have the constitution to back us up. What power do Catholics have to remove a leader that they feel is doing a great disservice to his church? Isn't what he says "the word of the Lord?" not just his opinion?

PEACE.

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