Pope Reverses Vatican II

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:39am

Catholics now to pray for the conversion of the Jews.

===

Pope Angers Jews, Liberals With Rite

Conservatives Rejoice as Pontiff Revives Old Latin Mass

By NICOLE WINFIELD, AP
Posted: 2007-07-07 23:16:06

VATICAN CITY (July 7) - Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday removed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass, reviving a rite that was all but swept away by the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

The decision, a victory for traditional, conservative Roman Catholics, came over the objections of liberal-minded Catholics and angered Jews because the Tridentine Mass contains a prayer for their conversion.

Pope Angers Jews, Liberals With Rite

[TheHumanTorch]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:43am

this is terrible news...

[blueroses]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:59am

Asshole.

[D2]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:03am

Excellent news - just what the church needs to bring back the flocks who've left in droves! When do the burnings at the stake resume?

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:07am

Oh goody. Just what was needed.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:13am

For lack of better words,

Oh, for the love of God.







My cousin literally just texted me from outside the church the rest of my family goes to because our priest (who by the way, is the biggest idiot ever. You wouldn't even believe some of the stories) told everyone that soon they would have to pray for the conversion of the Jews. He was right. Must be a gift from God or something.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:45am

And to think people have a problem with Scientology.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:57am

A bit of clarity:

1) There are several forms of the Tridentine Mass. It evolved over the centuries. (I, personally, would never attend any form offered)

2) The Tridentine form currently in use - in a very limited, restricted fashion - doesn't contain any such prayer. That monstrosity appeared in older versions.

3) The Tridentine Mass, which was forbidden since Vatican II, will now be offered only as an additional option in parishes. Lifting the ban doesn't mean that people will be forced to attend any such rite. It just means that the rite can be one of several available. I'm betting it will never be used, more than as a novelty, with American Catholics. Again, I'd never be interested.

4) The prayer for conversion - horrible intent that it was - was a part of the Tridentine service on Good Friday only during the post WWII period.

[mominator]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:59am

Just when I think, I am almost ready to return, the Vatican does something like this.
It is a sad thing when RC and I are in NY for the weekend, we love going to Mass @ St. Malachy's. The priest always welcomes those of us who have felt unwelcomed for years; and remides us that the Church needs us more than we need the Church.
I really wish someone would inform the Holy See of this point.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:00pm

I'm never going back.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:03pm

Oh, so now we are supposed to take the word of a "Mooney"?

[mominator]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:06pm

What makes our break with the RC the hardest, is that our oldest daughter's godfather is a priest, studied at the Vatican and was made a deacon by Pope John Paul 2nd.

Updated On: 7/10/07 at 12:06 PM

[jimnysf]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:06pm

All organized religions are cults based on superstitions and folk tales. I don't know why people point and laugh at Scientology. Is it really more unbelievable then any of the other religions? To me, they are all the same and they have caused misery in the world (My God is better than your God). Believe what you want but please, keep it to yourself.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:19pm

Yes, Sue. I'm starting my own church and I was hoping you could could preach next week. I have a hair appointment.

Seriously, a lot of people here ask me how I can be a part of such a f-ed up mess. I have to reply, in all honesty, that I feel called to worship there. It's something that's very strong within me. It allows me to look past (beyond, around, behind, whatever)the institution and it's leadership - especially its current leadership. I'm not about to turn away from grace where I find it just because some freaking idiot sits in the home office in Rome. They're not getting rid of me. I answer to a higher power (me and Hebrew National hotdogs). It's kind of like being an American during a particualrly horrendous Presidential and Congressional administration ( yeah, stretch your imagination - it happens). Just because the idiots in Washington seem hell bent on destroying all that would sem just and good about the country and it's constitution, doesn't make me say, "That's it, I'm leaving. I'm not going to be an American." I wouldn't let any fool - or governing body of fools - convince me to walk away and leave the country to them.

OK, so long-winded explanation, and probably more than you ever wanted to know about me. I've just gotten blitzed by inquiring PMs (some polite, others....NOT) this morning, so I just thought I'd speak my piece.

Hope I didn't take up too much of your time......
Updated On: 7/8/07 at 12:19 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:20pm

my church regularly prays for the conversion of sinful commies, and paljoey.

seriously, all this does is allow priests to practice the mass without getting permission from their bishops. it's actually part of a reconciliation that started a few years ago to bring the so-called "traditionalists" back into the fold.

hell for a time, priests were being excommunicated for saying the mass and there were little outlaw parishes around the country operating under the radar.

i happen to enjoy the tridentine mass and go once a month or so to st. agnes at 11am on sunday to indulge myself. nice to be able to hear it right in the heart of manhattan. nice church, too. the first traditional church to be authorized post vatican ii (after a fire destroyed the first st. agnes which was home to bishop sheen).

[opiv]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:20pm

Couldn't have said it better, jimnysf.

[Atrias]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:21pm

Thank you, Bluemoon, for expressing much more eloquently what I was struggling to write.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:26pm

I agree with Atrias. Thank you Bluemoon.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:31pm

You people sure like to make something out of nothing. Catholics have been praying for the conversion of all non-Catholics since, forever. This is a non-event.

[Taryn]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:39pm

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. This is not a forced reinstatement of the Tridentine Mass, this is permission for any priest to celebrate it without the permission of their bishop. And really, in terms of beauty, the Catholic Mass needs all the help it can get.

[mominator]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:56pm

Add my vote of gratitude to Moony as well, many many of my friends feel the need to stay Roman Catholic, but also understand why I had to leave (something about a camel through the eye of a needle thing)

[sabrelady]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:04pm

I'm sure this news will bring Mel Gibson much happiness.
And I can't think of anything nastier to say than that.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:24pm

I'm sure that the Pope doesn't see what the fuss is about since it's not like Jews are real people...

Does anyone else think that the Pope looks like he was drawn by Gahan Wilson?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:26pm

I am also grateful to Bluemoon for her sincere explanation and to Papalovesmambo for his caustic one, and less so to JohnBoy for another of his habitual acts of belittlement of other people's concerns.

I take your points, Moony and Papa and Taryn, but I caution you all about coddling what Papa calls "the so-called 'traditionalists.'" These are the same people who are responsible for much of the bigotry and anti-gay policies that the present pope promulgated when he was Cardinal Ratzinger.

My reading of 20th-century Italian history tells me that if you scratch the veneers of some of these "traditionalists," you'll find the remnants of the faction at the Vatican that supported Mussolini's alliance with Hitler.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 1:45pm

With all due respect, Mooney, if/when we have a shady government/president/congress we not only have the power to remove them, but we also have the constitution to back us up. What power do Catholics have to remove a leader that they feel is doing a great disservice to his church? Isn't what he says "the word of the Lord?" not just his opinion?