Problems with the Evita BD?

[tazber]

Posted: 6/19/12 at 8:14am

I know there a couple of discussions about this BD, but based on my search they are buried in other threads and I wanted to mention this somewhere where everyone would see it.

I had heard a few weeks ago that there were some issues with the transfer (for you techies, specifically that there was a noticeable lack of DNR; Digital Noise Reduction) not being up to BD standards.

This morning I saw it mentioned again on AICN:

There’s chatter online about the quality of the video – some complaining of DNR issues – and others saying they don’t see the problems. Whatever, I’ll be finding out soon enough.


Since Disney is aggressively releasing so many of their films so quickly it's likely that there wasn't a lot of care put into this. And given the poor selection of extras I'm not getting a good feeling.

Just wanted to let everyone know. Many times studios will correct these issues after complaints so if you haven't pre-ordered it, it may be better to wait a bit.

As I see more reviews I'll post them.

I'll watch mine tonight and let you know if I see a huge improvement over the DVD.

And anyone else who sees it, please weigh in too!
AICN link

[Gothampc]

Posted: 6/19/12 at 10:33am

"specifically that there was a noticeable lack of DNR; Digital Noise Reduction"

Yeah, you can still hear Madonna gasping for breath on some of the songs.

[BDrischBDemented]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 1:48am

Just finished watching it. I don't claim to be an expert, but given some of the more extreme DNR examples I'm familiar with, it looks like the Blu-ray MAY have had some level of noise reduction applied but not much. I didn't see a whole lot of grain, but contrariwise there didn't seem to be any severe scrubbing away of detail. There are some shots that appear softer than others, but having not seen the movie in theaters, was that always the case? Part of me wonders if it was done intentionally to make Madonna look slightly younger. Anyhow, somebody correct me if I'm wrong regarding the image.

In any case, the audio is pretty great and while it's not at the level of the Criterion release, the documentary / music video / trailer is nice to have. Any way you dice it, it's still an improvement over the non-anamorphic DVD.

Updated On: 6/20/12 at 01:48 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 4:25am

First of all, just to be clear ... a LACK of DNR is a good thing. It means the image hasn't been digitally manipulated to reduce the level of noise in the picture.

Most purists complain when they see too much DNR (or even any at all).

Here's my problem with those people and their knee-jerk reactions. They're not always right. And a softer/cleaner image doesn't always mean DNR has been applied to get that result.

As with the case of "Evita," I saw the film twice at the Cineramadome in Hollywood. It was the primary location for this movie in L.A. when it first opened. The "flagship" theatre, if you will.

I can tell you that, without a doubt, the original film image had a softness and almost glow to many of its shots. That's the way the movie was made. This is not a digital enhancement for the HD release. To sharpen the image, or to make it look like it was shot any other way would be to do the film a disservice.

I haven't seen this Blu-ray yet (mine is on order), but I did watch the movie recently in high-definition on one of my HD channels, and it looked and sounded terrific. As good as I remember seeing it at the Cineramadome, with no noticeable change in image. In my opinion, they did a very good job for an older catalogue title.

EDIT: Oh, and for what it's worth, there is a "making-of" documentary on the disc, plus the trailer, and a music video for "You Must Love Me." It's not strictly barebones, which other people have said. Some folks complain without even looking at the disc first.

Updated On: 6/20/12 at 04:25 AM

[tazber]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 7:59am

Sorry for misstating the "lack of DNR" as being a bad thing. Thanks for clarifying besty.

I watched mine last night. I agree with BDrischBDemented that the sound is stunning and the picture was just ok. Miles better than the dvd but it still seemed to lack a level of clarity that I expected.

Having read besty's comment about it always being soft though, maybe it's exactly as it should be.

Please give us your opinion after you see it besty since you have a good recollection of what it looked like originally.

Regarding the extras: it's not that it's bare bones, it's that there is so much more available which could have easily been included.

On a side note: I also got Newsies and played about 45 minutes of it just to see how it was. Sadly, it's not nearly as good as the Evita transfer. Sound is weak and picture is not noticeably better than the dvd. Definitely not recommended as an upgrade.

Updated On: 6/20/12 at 07:59 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 9:02am

Thanks for your thoughts on the Blu-ray(s), Taz!

I should clarify that certain shots and sequences in "Evita" had that softer/glow look to them. I don't recall it being on every single shot throughout the movie, however. I will definitely take a look at it as soon as it arrives, and see if it matches my recollection of seeing it (in optimum conditions) in the theatre.

As for Newsies, sorry to hear that! I have a copy of the DVD (I've had it for years), and I didn't feel an upgrade was necessary. It looked fine enough to me. Sounds like the BD wasn't much (if any) of an improvement.

With Evita, the DVD release was 4x3 letterboxed, with a seriously flawed transfer, so I'm sure this is a vast improvement, even if there are issues.

I'm curious about the "making-of" doc ... I know it's not the extended one featured on the Criterion release. Disney would have had to give them credit or even shared the release (like Paramount did with Benjamin Button), in order to use that wonderful documentary. But is the one on the disc any good? Or is it just one of those "first-look" promo pieces?

[BroadwayBenny]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 1:25pm

According to someone on Blu-Ray.com, it IS the same 45 minute documentary that was on the LaserDisc. It even still suffers from PAL speed up as it did on the Criterion release, so the audio is a bit more high pitch than it should be. And all the features are in Standard Definition. I can't confirm this myself as I too am waiting for mine to arrive from amazon.

As you said though best12bars, the DVD release was so awful, that this HAS to be a huge improvement regardless of the special features. Even if it is the same HD master they have been using for broadcasting.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 1:29pm

Ugh! Mine hasn't even shipped yet!

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/20/12 at 1:52pm

I'm thrilled if they used the same documentary! Maybe Criterion didn't own it to begin with when they put it on the laser disc.

But I know the PAL speed-up is going to drive me crazy. It always does, particularly in the audio when everybody sounds like they just inhaled helium.

[BroadwayBenny]

Posted: 6/21/12 at 9:38pm

EVITA Blu-ray Review

[tazber]

Posted: 6/22/12 at 6:36am

Thanks for that review Benny.

He mentions that the DNR issue is prevalent in the first part of the film, which is exactly where I noticed it.

The more I read though, apparently it was always like this. The soft focus was used to enhance the feeling that we have gone back in time to Eva's beginnings.

By the time Good Night and Thank You is over the cinematography is crisp again.

On a side note I never loved this movie because I think I was always expecting Patti and Mandy levels of singing. Seeing again years later I was surprised how much I really enjoyed it.

I also never realized how superb the art direction is.

Updated On: 6/22/12 at 06:36 AM

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/22/12 at 8:09am

Just watched my copy of the Blu-ray last night and have to say that I was somewhat disappointed with the transfer. The picture just doesn't pop. From what I've been reading, I guess it has a lot to do with the soft-focus style and sepia tones that were used in filming, but I still think it could have done with a little less DNR. I would have preferred a slightly grainier look. That said, I've always loved the movie and never got why some people, especially fans of the material, hold it in such contempt. I think it's one of the best stage to screen adaptations out there, and, personally, after having seen the original Broadway production and the current revival, I honestly feel that the material works better on film. The art direction and cinematography are stunning, and Parker's direction, with the exception of a couple of perplexing choices, is admirable. And I still think Madonna did a great job and was born to play the role (on film), and Banderas' performance was spot on and had everything going for it that Martin's performance is lacking in the current revival. All-in-all, I really enjoyed watching the Blu-ray and revisiting the film.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/22/12 at 8:20am

My copy is on its way, so I haven't seen the BD yet. But I did watch it earlier on an HD channel, and I agree with Taz. The movie holds up remarkably well, and once you gat past the "it's not Patti and Mandy," which is a lot easier to do after 15 years, I think it's a damn good film adaptation.

I was still frustrated by those "devil doll" hideous contacts that undermine Madonna's otherwise bravura performance. Her singing is fine, tailored to fit her vocal range, and if you stop with the side-by-side sheet music comparing of keys (who the hell cares what key it's in, just play the part well!), she pulls it off admirably. And Banderas is terrific in the re-imagined role of "Che."

I found myself still mildly disappointed in Pryce. They should have gone with Bob Gunton, who not only created the part on Broadway but had equal footing as a film actor back then (and arguably even more so now). Pryce seems a bit too limp and restrained for the leader of Argentina.

I think the art direction, costumes, and cinematography are all excellent, and I don't mind the softer focus and "bloomed edges," and I didn't mind them back then, either.

I look forward to seeing the BD!

Updated On: 6/22/12 at 08:20 AM

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/22/12 at 2:18pm

I just read the Bly-ray.com review that BroadwayBunny posted, and I must say, I think it's right on the money in regard to the film, the performances - especially Madonna's - and the stage to screen observations. Although he rates the picture quality of the Blu-ray higher than I would, I pretty much agreed with everything else he had to say. A well thought out, insightful and intelligent critique, better than any I recall reading when the film was originally released.

Updated On: 6/23/12 at 02:18 PM

[BroadwayBenny]

Posted: 6/26/12 at 1:07am

Still waiting on my copy. Apparently there was more demand than expected from amazon, so they had to get more in stock. Got my official shipping confirmation today though, so I should have it in the next few days.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/28/12 at 8:19am

I skimmed through it last night. I'll watch the whole thing this weekend.

It looks a bit soft to me, but nothing distracting or serious. I'm not sure if it's because I was actively looking for it or because I remember it to be slightly (but not significantly) sharper than this.

Still, it's such an improvement over the old DVD. Could it have been better? Yes, I think so. The sound is excellent, though.

Also, I've seen people on the Home Theatre Forum board complaining that the "making of" documentary has been edited. Someone posted what was cut, and while it's a great moment to include, it seems obvious why it was cut. They're singing two Carpenters songs on the set. They would have had to clear the rights for these songs to be included on the disc.

I'm sure when they were cleared in perpetuity for the laser disc, that didn't include any additional media formats. Also, remember laser discs were much more expensive, and as I recall, the Criterion Evita was around $99. I'm sure they paid for clearance. Whereas a DVD priced to sell (I bought mine for $12.99) isn't going to allow them to spend money on clearing Carpenters' songs for a one-minute segment.

Still, if you want to see what has been cut from the documentary, here it is. It's a nice moment, too.


The edited footage