Richard Rodgers: NOT a Nice Man

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:09pm

Despite the inspirational songs Rodgers wrote like "You'll Never Walk Alone" and "Climb Ev'ry Mountain," Richard Rodgers was NOT a nice man.

He was an egotistical, vain, self-centered man who LOVED control and power.

(In inner theater circles, Hammerstein was referred to as "The Nice Tall One" and Rodgers "The Little Son of a Bitch."

Although R&H shared an office in Manhattan, Hammerstein NEVER went there because Rodgers DOMINATED the place--always on the phone trying to make deals to keep the R&H name prominent in the public eye.

The situation came to a head in 1951, when THE KING and I opened. Rodgers was so jealous of the accolodates Hammerstein got from the critics regarding his book and lyrics THAT HE STOPPED SPEAKING TO HAMMERSTEIN ON A PERSONAL LEVEL--he would only discuss business with his partner until Hammerstein's death eight years later.

Rodgers didn't exactly mellow with age--when he worked with Stephen Sondheim on the musical DO I HEAR A WALTZ in 1965, he said that one of Sondheim's lyrics was sh*t in front of THE ENTIRE COMPANY.

Yep, that was the composer of "I Cain't Say No"and "Happy Talk."


Shatters a few illusions, doesn't it? :)

[popcultureboy]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:11pm

Not really, no.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:12pm

No... regardless of his personality, he was still one of the greatest composers in American history, no? That shouldn't change the music he left us with, and the way his work changed American musical theatre.

Updated On: 10/27/04 at 12:12 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:12pm

Yeah...can't say you added anything new to my knowledge of musical theatre with that one, M_E.

Sorry.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:13pm

well, I never thought of him as being a nice guy or an asshole. But, I guess we all know now.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:14pm

Have you guys heard that Joan Crawford was a real bitch? Now THAT will shatter illusions.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:15pm

I knew a person who was in the revival cast of SOM and she said that Mary Martin was a real bitch at the opening night party.

[ShineOn]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:17pm

I've always been under the impression Rodgers was a self righteous, pompous man... I've really never heard a good word uttered about him on a personal level, just professional...

No illusions shattered. :) But I love your passion for the old school... if you ever want to discuss Ginger and Fred, Gene Kelly, Vera-Ellen, Rosemary Clooney, Danny Kaye, Debbie Reynolds, Judy, etc., you know where to find me. :)

How about Bing Crosby? Wanna talk about mean old men. The only person I've ever heard say a nice word about him consistantly was Rosemary Clooney. But boy, was he talented! Love me some Bing.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 12:22pm

Regarding Mary Martin: how do you think her son Larry Hagman had the instinct to play JR Ewing so well?

[WOSQ]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:09pm

Rodgers also spent a lot of time off his feet with women who were not his wife, if you get my drift.

There seemed to be at least one in every show. At least.

No names, but he liked them young, bouncy and pretty. None were untalented, but they paid a price. Most deny it.

I met a former chorus girl who didn't deny it. She also said the event was less than memorable.

Its amazing what a few drinks will do to loosen a few stories from people.

[Marquise]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:11pm

don't speak ill of the dead, this man has been gone for how many years now? let him rest in peace.

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:12pm

Marquise,

Where's your CARRIE icon for Halloween?

I LOVED it! :)

[Chloe]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:14pm

Yeah, Mary_Ethel, even I had heard that Rodgers was difficult, but the details you provide are pretty horrendous, especially shutting out Hammerstein, who I gather was a genuinely good person. (And after all, it was H. who wrote the words to those songs!)

Genius has shown no particular propensity for blessing only the nice, that's for sure.

[Marquise]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:16pm

mary_ethel i ditched spacek for snoopy..he's my idol

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:17pm

"Genius has shown no particular propensity for blessing only the nice, that's for sure."

Chloe, truer words were never spoken. I'm taking them for my signature, if you don't mind!

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:23pm

Chloe,

As others have indicated already on this thread, other Show Business Legends have bad "public relations." [You are right--it is easier to "tear down" than "build up".]

For example, just prior to CALL ME MADAM opening in 1950, Irving Berlin told Ethel Merman he had one new song for her.

Merman's response: "NOT on your life! This show is FROZEN!"

Needles to say, the new song was NEVER inserted into CALL ME MADAM.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:24pm

Merman was my friend's godmother. Can you imagine??

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:27pm

Ethel Merman's daughter killed herself--apparantly Merman wasn't very good in the Parenting Department either.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:28pm

I can tell you her goddaughter was not that fond of her. Her grandmother was Merman's BFF though.

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:31pm

Rath,

Please define 'BFF.'


Thanks! :)

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:31pm

Aw, who gives a crap! I am sick of this I-can't-separate-the-artist-from-his-work stuff. Could anyone enjoy the work of Debussy, Picasso, Hemingway, Brando, or Peter Sellars if we knew what they were like in real life? It's totally irrelevant!

Updated On: 10/27/04 at 01:31 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:33pm

I was using the vernacular of the tweens, albeit a bit tongue in cheek. I believe it means BestFriendsForever.

[Plum]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:37pm

Personality is not totally irrelevant all of the time, Borstalboy, but in this case, yeah, I'd say it is.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:51pm

Interesting, Borstalboy, that you mention all people who are deceased and of another age. Plenty of our current-day much-beloved Broadway stars are of the same ilk.

[judy_in_disguise]

Posted: 10/27/04 at 1:53pm

You know what, this really has no affect on how I view his music.
Take Canadian singer/songwriter Chantal Kreviasuk for example. She writes beautiful songs and has one of the most engaging stage prescences I have ever seen.
In the "inner music circle" she is referred to as "Chantal Crazyassbitch" and I have only heard of (and experienced myself) negative personal encounters with her.
But "Feels Like Home" will always be beautiful.
And so will "You'll Never Walk Alone".