S**t goin' down in Venezuela

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 10:04pm

Scary s**t

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 10:14pm

What's going on in a nutshell

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 10:15pm

Man oh man.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 10:17pm

Yes, the police are shooting students in the street

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 11:49pm

Next time you hear someone complain about living in this country, we should encourage them to move to Venezuela or Ukraine. Maybe they'll appreciate life here more after their field trip.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/20/14 at 11:50pm

Yeeehawww! 'Murca! Love it or Leave It Y'alll!

Don't criticize HERE because if you criticize THERE you end up DEAD so don't criticize HERE because people are dying THERE because that's what they're doing THERE so don't do it HERE because maybe you should live THERE if you want to criticize here.

USA! USA! USA!

Updated On: 2/21/14 at 11:50 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 12:33am

The **** has been going on in Venezuela for days. People have finally taken to the streets in droves to protest a lack of security, skyrocketing inflation and state repression. Protestors are being shot by riot police. The office of the government's opposition was raided by the government. Leopoldo Lopez, the opposition leader, has been arrested on utterly trumped up charges of instigating a violent overthrow of the government. Thousands of people supporting him continue to take to the streets at great risk to their lives from the police. CNN has been ousted from the country. American diplomats were sent home. An already impossibly dangerous place to live has become far worse. It's chaos on a level with Ukraine - albeit so far with far fewer deaths - but getting far less attention.

Updated On: 2/21/14 at 12:33 AM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 12:54am

Next time you hear someone complain about living in this country, we should encourage them to move to Venezuela or Ukraine. Maybe they'll appreciate life here more after their field trip.


Oh, Liza. Seriously? I want to pretend you were doing your best Stephen Colbert imitation there^, but I'm doubtful.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 1:01am

"Don't criticize HERE because if you criticize THERE you end up DEAD so don't criticize HERE because people are dying THERE because that's what they're doing THERE so don't do it HERE because maybe you should live THERE if you want to criticize here. "

Poke. Poke. Poke.

Updated On: 2/21/14 at 01:01 AM

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 6:54am

"Poke. Poke. Poke."
So you're admitting to your trolling?

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 9:36am

You gather that from me typing out the word "poke" three times? I'm simply repeating Namo's own sentiment about "poking the bear."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 9:58am

Without attribution; that seems to be a thing.

MEANWHILE, back to the awful situation in Venezuela. I can't get a sense of how many people there think the students shouldn't be "complaining". I know how many people had similar reactionary responses to Occupy here, that people shouldn't complain.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 10:29am

Native Americans something, something...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 10:34am

Good point.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 10:47am

I have spent a great deal of time in Venezuela and among Venezuelans in the U.S. and other places in the current Venezuelan diaspora. My partner is Venezuelan, and I have many friends and extended family there. There is a great deal to complain about in Venezuela. There has been for a great many years although, for a long time, perhaps the problems for many were masked to some extent by Chavez's star power. Chavez is gone and Maduro does not have the same kind of hold on much of the populace (of all classes). Many poor as well as more affluent Venezuelans do not approve of what is happening in their country. And many of them are willing to die to make life better for all Venezuelans.

Apart from a crumbling economy and corruption,.. and apart from a government which represses dissent, now violently, falsely accuses the political opposition of evil and imprisons them, etc., there is the prevailing question of security and the inability of the government to protect its citizens.

There is a sense among many that the Revolution, rather than working for real reform and equality, has survived mostly on a divide and conquer culture of class conflict. Rather than working toward greater equality the government has done everything it can to instill hostility between the classes. Don't get me wrong, the Revolution was much needed and at first Chavez was greatly supported by a great many people of all walks of life. And sure some things have gotten marginally better for the poor but it is still a country where the poor are very poor, the rich very rich, and the once important middle and professional class has been shrinking with many impelled to leave the country out of fear.

Many friends and family members of mine have been kidnapped. Again, there is a justifiable sense that the government thrives on criminality as it is a means of perpetuating a rich-against-poor ethos which keeps them in power (sometimes they remain in office because the voting is accurate, at other times certainly not). As many people have said, if they are going to be killed (or brutally kidnapped) going out for a carton of milk, they might as well be killed or get hurt fighting for the future of their country.

Meanwhile, the Revolution has been highly successful in appearing as if it is something it is not. Chavez, for all his faults, stood up to George Bush when the so-called American left didn't, and when the American press didn't. This has understandably made him very much of a hero in this country (he is practically deified by Oliver Stone and Sean Penn). I applaud Chavez for standing up to Bush. I applaud the spirit of a movement for a more egalitarian Venezuela. And so do most Venezuelans and I'm sure the vast majority of people who have had enough and are taking to the streets.

But that isn't the point. The point is that the government has long abandoned working for the betterment of the country and all Venezuelans in any real, lasting way. This might well be the beginning of the end of an era. But it is a very scary time.

Namo, there is not a failure of the Venezuelan public at large to support the complaints that lead people, including students, to take to the street. Although student driven at many formative times, this is not only a student struggle. Many have taken to the streets. It is a struggle with wide popular support in Venezuela, much wider than Occupy (with due respect to Occupy, a movement I endorse).















Updated On: 2/21/14 at 10:47 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 10:53am

Thanks for that overview. The last paragraph sounds like it could be the near future of the US.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 11:01am

I endorse anarchy and bear poking.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 11:08am

henrikegerman, thanks for that insight. Are any of your friends/family participating in the current movement? If so, wish them all the best for their safety and success! BTW, you mentioned that many of your family and friends have been kidnapped? That's rather harrowing. Were they released shortly after or were these long captivities? Either way, a terrible thing to endure.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 11:31am

Def thanks for the insight Henrikegerman!

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 11:35am

Thank you Horsetears and Borstal. Some people I know are participating. And among my friends in Venezuela are close friends and relatives of the arrested opposition leader, Leopoldo Lopez (by the way Lopez is the great great grand-nephew of Bolivar). Other people I'm close to, although some have at times been very politically active, are trying to keep safely removed from the frontlines. Some have left the country for at least a time. My partner's brother yesterday was able to leave Caracas for Florida.

Most people I know who have been kidnapped were released in relatively short order. In Caracas there is what is known as kidnap-express. The abduction is meant to last for less than a day - a volume business - and the kidnappers get what they can get and release people. Many people have to some extent pre-planned making sure funds are available in the event this happens in an effort to minimize their captivity. What is equally harrowing of course is for an entire population to live under conditions where these things happen so frequently and can easily happen to them anytime they head out. Obviously, mobility in certain parts of the country is greatly impaired (socializing and nightlife in Caracas often takes place inside shopping malls). Some other parts of the country have hitherto remained relatively safe but, of course, things can happen anywhere (hell things can happen in Murray Hill let lone Maracaibo) and of course in the U.S. might be tempted to compare the inability of the law in certain parts of the country to protect some kinds of people against the violence of others (most notably at present violence against young black men by white guys with guns) to the failures of Venezuela to protect so many of its citizens and coddle those who are threatening them.

I do have friends in New York who have friends and relatives who were killed after being abducted in Venezuela.





Updated On: 2/21/14 at 11:35 AM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 12:46pm

That is one scary existence. I cannot imagine living under such hostile and dangerous conditions. Sending prayers for my fellow Venezuelan brothers and sisters for their bravery. God bless them one and all.

[kadu335]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 1:04pm

Very scary indeed. We've been following all the action pretty closely from over here in Brazil. Wishing all the best for our fellow South Americans!

Updated On: 2/21/14 at 01:04 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 2/21/14 at 9:23pm

Thank you, henrik, for the overview and the personal info. I confess I've been a bit baffled.

I'm so sorry that your friends and family that are suffering during this turmoil.