SNL - Jake G. singing And I Am Telling You- Page 4

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:02pm

"What I think people need to realize is that the musical, as we know it, is becoming more arcane by the year."

Namo, I would agree, sadly.

I'm just guessing there were probably millions of people watching last night, on the weekend that Dreamgirls finally opens wide, who thought, "Oh, I see, it's a 'gay thing,' Marge, we'd better not go."

I personally don't care what "Marge" and her mid-American husband think... except they are in essence "voting" with their wallets for what gets made in the future, by what they see at the multiplex today.

So, when the "votes" are tallied, we end up with Cheaper By the Dozen 2, and 3 and 4, and "There's Really Even MORE STILL Something About Mary."

But getting back to your first remark I quoted... I do agree with that. Mainstream musical theatre (on film or on stage) is going the way of Opera. It will likely always be around to a fiercely loyal niche group who will passionately never let it die. Not all of them gay, either, but their continued support will be critical. And as long as the total number of people who care can generate a steady (if not overwhelming) revenue... then yes, we will see it continue on some scale.

I guess I need to get over the idea of seeing it succeed on the level of Rodgers & Hammerstein, ever again. I'm not used to that yet. I keep hoping and dreaming.


EDIT: Namo, I didn't answer this question...

"Do you mean the Chicago movie "worked" because Harvey Weinstein through sheer force of will MADE that thing a box office success or do you mean artistically as a film? I'd agree with the former, and not the latter."

Yes, so would I. I did mean the former. It "worked" for mainstream audiences and they connected with it, and it was a big fat hit. It has since caused several other projects, including Dreamgirls to be greenlit that might never have seen the light of day. That's why it's important. Probably for no other reason, actually.

Updated On: 1/14/07 at 04:02 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:26pm

I'm just guessing there were probably millions of people watching last night, on the weekend that Dreamgirls finally opens wide, who thought, "Oh, I see, it's a 'gay thing,' Marge, we'd better not go."

But no matter how hard I try, I can't imagine Dreamgirls "To See or Not to See" fence-sitters are tuning into SNL in the first place. Or that there are a lot of people who don't already know how gay musicals are who had tentative plans to see Dreamgirls so long as nobody associated it in public with gay people. And really, not millions of such creatures!

"I guess I need to get over the idea of seeing it succeed on the level of Rodgers & Hammerstein, ever again."

Well, yeah. And the plus side of that is that the R&H musicals were so incredibly hetero-norm reinforcing like few musicals before or since! It's as if, to paraphrase Transamerica, somebody took those R&H musicals and put them through a strainer til there was practically no gay left. Especially when they moved to the silver screen.

BTW "There's Really Even MORE STILL Something About Mary" made me laugh out loud.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:29pm

Nope, ACL is the coming out phase.

You know what's funny. My parents remember a lot of their straight friends going off to see the midnight showings of Rocky.

And at least around here, if you say you like Rocky, you don't immediately stamp yourself with "Gay?"

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:31pm

Rocky fans are at the very least "gay-friendly." And, no, ACL is not the "coming out phase," which is not a phase but an event. And ACL is one of the gayest musicals ever, right down to its shiny gold-spangled hats.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:35pm

You know what's funny. My parents remember a lot of their straight friends going off to see the midnight showings of Rocky.

When you start bringing the flinging of rice and toast into the equation it becomes something different.

And at least around here, if you say you like Rocky, you don't immediately stamp yourself with "Gay?"

Well, no one really has taken the time to differentiate which musicals are gay and straight on here before, to the best of my knowledge. No one generally stamps themselves with gay or straight around here when listing what musicals they like. It still doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely gay art form.

No one is telling straight people they can't or shouldn't enjoy musicals. It's just that perhaps they should accept that in this gay it is they who are deviating from the norm.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:37pm

Oh. Around here means real life.

"No one is telling straight people they can't or shouldn't enjoy musicals. It's just that perhaps they should accept that in this gay it is they who are deviating from the norm."

Agreed. Sadly.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:39pm

You wrote "in this gay" when I think you meant "in this way" but really, now that I think about it, it is "in this gay."

Why is that sad? So much of what has been considered culturally great has been created by gay artists. That fact should be embraced, not avoided.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:39pm

Oh. Around here means real life.

Oh, okay. I was thinking you meant BWW.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:41pm

No, you're right, Namo. The fence-sitters, if there were any, would have made up their minds long before the SNL airing. It wasn't a revelation so much as a validation for any of them.

But for many, the choice to go see it wasn't even available until this weekend... so it's just lousy timing to "lovingly spoof" the movie in such a hilarious, flamboyant way.

"Well, yeah. And the plus side of that is that the R&H musicals were so incredibly hetero-norm reinforcing like few musicals before or since!"

Only on the surface, Namo. R&H approached everything from the hetero-norm world, and then exposed controversial, non-norm subjects like racism, sexism and spousal abuse, and still made big fat hits while doing it. I guess I'm a believer today in that same approach, that you can "trick" the audiences into taking new medicine if you give them a spoonful of sugar up front. (GOD, that was GAY, but the analogy works.)

Problem now is, they don't want to see any musical at all... and you can't trick them into learning something or experiencing something new, if you can't get them through the door first.

Updated On: 1/14/07 at 04:41 PM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:41pm

It's sad that "things" belong to anyone. It's the way of life, but still...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:44pm

"Problem now is, they don't want to see any musical at all... and you can't trick them into learning something or experiencing something new, if you can't get them through the door first."

Exactly. Audiences are too sophisticated to be tricked at the same time that purveyors of mainstream culture dumb down further and further to make as much money for shareholders as possible.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:48pm

Rocky Horror appeals to a wider "cult" non-Gay audience the way any circus or freak show does.

Mr. & Mrs. Straight LOVE going to the West Hollywood Halloween parade now too, incidentally the biggest parade in the country currently, each year... but the ratio of gay/straight is almost 50/50. That's about 250,000 straights showing up in Weho to "look at the crazies."

"Come look at the freaks!" It's time to party with them, feel a little dirty, a little campy, laugh a lot, and have some naughty fun.

But only in measured doses... the Midnight Show, after a six pack, or a few tokes... only when the moon is full, and "Satan" is out on the town.

Then, it's cool for all.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:49pm

I highly doubt that anyone who would be turned off by thinkig that Dreamgirls was a gay movie would be tuning into SNL to watch Jake GAYllynhall....

Just my thought.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:53pm

That's about 250,000 straights showing up in Weho to "look at the crazies."

But I think the more closed minded among them stand a much better chance of learning a thing or two about joyous personal expression, creative celebration, and how the rigidness of traditional gender roles is bad for everybody at the parade than say, seeing a equal sign bumper sticker would, for instance!

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 4:54pm

Don't dream it. Be it.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:01pm

Is that the tagline for the movie?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:17pm

That's the name of the song Frank sings while floating in the pool at the end.

That's also how Tim Curry signed his head shot to me.

[soapguy17]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:18pm

You know what's funny. My parents remember a lot of their straight friends going off to see the midnight showings of Rocky.

I actually live in Alabama. Here the midnight showing of Rocky was sold out. All of the men I knew personally that went were straight. Two were even homophobic.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:21pm

Were they going to appreciate it as a musical or to throw stuff and yell epithets are the screen?

[StageManager2]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:22pm

"That's the name of the song Frank sings while floating in the pool at the end."

Oh. I thought it was DREAMGIRLS related. LOL!

[soapguy17]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:33pm

Kringas, I wasn't aware that BWSO was talking about the movie. I was talking about a live theatre version. The six guys I knew went together beacsue it was rock musical. Which atuomatically makes it not gay. The same for Rent, and Tick, Tick, Boom. Even though they both have have gay characters.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:35pm

And are gay.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:40pm

It was the word "showing" that threw me.

[soapguy17]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:41pm

That too.

[jimnysf]

Posted: 1/14/07 at 5:45pm

Musical films were popular until the late 60's or so. "The Sound of Music" was one of the top box office hits of all time. Are we saying that only gay people saw these films? If so, there must have been a heck of a lot of closeted gay people alive in the days of the MGM, Warner, and Fox musicals.