"Saved" - Yay!- Page 2

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 10:32pm

If the religous authorities would follow your advice, papa, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 10:32pm

no, jrb, you'd wax eloquent about how blue the sky was under a grey london morning and then scream, "so the f*** what! it's blue somewhere!"

can you not see the difference in what he said and what you said? and i forgot, if it's on cnn, it can't ever be anything but the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

quit acting like a petulant child and face the fact that just because you have some friends who would not argue that point with you doesn't make it a universally accepted fact. again, i've taken issue not with what you're trying to say (which i'm assuming is that extremism in any form is bad and can be equivalent), but instead with how you are saying it (by equating those who believe in a religion with those who persecute people for believing) and you've again failed to make the leap to understanding that. are ya lazy or just dumb?

Updated On: 6/20/04 at 10:32 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 10:38pm

And, the irony was that I wasn't even referring to him specifically. I was just adding to the general issue of people using their religion to defend their prejudices.

My point is that you feel the need to argue everything just to argue. Half the time, you are just pulling stuff out of your butt. You can call me lazy or dumb in a weak attempt to deflect my posts. I really could care less what you think. If your arguments are so strong, then I would suspect that you could let them speak for themself without having to insult me.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 10:49pm

eh, i just tacked that on becasue i remember when you used to actually make coherent arguments. who knows, maybe i made that part up and am endowing you with traits you never posessed.

the point was that in trying to point out people using their religion to defend their prejudices, you chose to compare them to groups that attacked people because of their religion. logic. find the logic. that's almost as bad as the people who call israelis nazis.

i tacked on a comment at the end of a post after having explained why i took issue with that post. i guess i thought that insulting you might shock you enough to look at the content of what you posted in a logical manner.

nah, who am i kidding, it sounded cool and you've been acting like a f***ing third grader so you deserved it. now, ya wanna argue, let's go. other than, the last post crying, "yer bein' mean papa" and the first, "well cnn says it too", i don't think you've defended your initial post.

how can you equate religious conviction with nazis who killed those with religious convictions?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 10:57pm

so, first I'm a child, then a 3rd grader. Just because you don't agree with me. Well, at least I'm not a huge stinking a hole. THAT expertise I will always leave to you.

I really don't care if you don't think my logic is good. I expressed an opinion which doesn't need your approval on its logic. Hatred is hatred to me. If you really need a more level comparison, I will go with people using religion to attack gay marriage rights is equivalent to people using religion to attack interracial marriage. People using religion to hate gays is the same as people using religion to hate blacks. People using religion to hate Christians and Jews is wrong, too. If you want to quibble whether the crime is discrimination on the job, denying equal rights in this country, mass murdering people--you go ahead. Sure, they are very different injustices, but my point is using religion to justify any of them. Hatred is hatred. Prejudice is prejudice. And, I don't really have to justify that with YOU.

And, I referenced Aaron Brown to refute your discrediting my opinion--that I am not wrong in what I said.

Updated On: 6/20/04 at 10:57 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:07pm

no, you're a 3rd grader because you've lost any ability to argue cogently, which i blame on spending too much time with like minded people. tsk, tsk.

religion was the bedrock of the civil rights movement or the 60's!! how many churches opened their doors to people whose churches had been burned down or bombed thus allowing for intermingling of the races and the inevitable conclusion that people are people? were it not for religion, those ties would not have been formed and religious leaders at the time both redneck and catholic and jewish all argued for those rights. man, read history. the religious folk of the time were on the vanguard of the civil rights movement and you demean yourself and them to suggest it was not so.

and if you don't believe me, believe civilrights.org:
http://www.civilrights.org/research_center/civilrights101/religion.htmlhttp://www.civilrights.org/research_center/civilrights101/religion.html>http://www.civilrights.org/research_center/civilrights101/religion.html

Updated On: 6/20/04 at 11:07 PM

[Matt_G]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:12pm

JRB isn't in 3rd grade, Papa. For your information we both just graduated from Middle School last week. We sang FOR GOOD to each other at the graduation ceremony and cried like two little girls with skinned knees.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:14pm

in short pants?

[Matt_G]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:15pm

short khaki pants, short sleeved white button downs with clip on ties and knee high socks. We were ADORABLE!!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:15pm

OMG! You are ridiculous! I NEVER said that religion was bad! I said people that use religion for hatred are bad. Give me a break, papa! The KKK and other anti-civil rights politicians/supporters used the Bible to support their racism. The Bible was used to defend slavery.

Believe me--I know there are gay friendly churches.

Maybe, you should be the one thinking before you post.

And, your comment about my spending too much time with like minded people clearly explains what this is all really about. I could say stupid things that were pro GOP, and you wouldn't say a thing, but ANYONE speaking for a liberal pov is automatically criticized as illogical, wishy washy, or lazy. Man, if you can't just defend your pov, maybe it isn't very strong, Bush, I mean, papa. My thinking is just fine. You just don't agree with me. What's sadder is that you constantly argue on here JUST to argue. Just to be devil's advocate. And, when you don't like what someone says you get belligerent. Who's the one acting like a child. You are just a brat yourself.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:32pm

you just spent two posts decrying people who used religion to defend oppression and when it was pointed out to you that religious people were on the vanguard of the civil rights movement, you conveniently decide that "some" religious peoplke are ok after having railed against religion. i'm not picking on liberals per se, jrb, just those who use faulty logic to defend dubious theses.

i could make the same argument regarding people who make posts with which you do not agree but accept because their general politics are similar to yours. i have not gotten belligerant. you seem to find that just because i disagree with you and suggest you're of dubious intellectual stature that i am being belligerant. you'll know when i get belligerant.

now, i have defended my arguments and have done so from the very beginning, but you've focussed on some personal slights to drag it away from logic and back to a more personal argument so that you can avoid the fact that your first statement, the one with which i took issue, was flawed.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:36pm

Matt: I've heard it said
JRB: That people come into our lives...
Matt: ...for a reason

(Both giggle)

Matt: Bringing something we must learn
JRB: and we are led to those
Matt: who help us most to grow
JRB & Matt: if we let them

(The two hold hands)

JRB & Matt: And we help them in return

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:37pm

oh, you never made insults

I NEVER said ALL religion used hatred!! I wasn't "conveniently deciding" anything or changing my stance. My stance is exactly the same. Your ignorant post required my specifying further for you.

Updated On: 6/20/04 at 11:37 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:48pm

"I will go with people using religion to attack gay marriage rights is equivalent to people using religion to attack interracial marriage."

but they didn't use religion for that.

"People using religion to hate gays is the same as people using religion to hate blacks."

nor did they use religion for this.

in both cases generally speaking, religion was on the other side of the argument as were the proponerance of religious leaders. but since it was so long ago and the world has changed it's a lot easier and more "progressive" in 2004 to lump religious leaders in with the klan.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:53pm

no, people did and do use their religion in racism. Did I say all? Did I say most? I said that there are people who use their religion for hatred. I never disputed that religion was used to fight FOR civil rights. What really are you trying to prove me wrong on? You can't, so let's stop going in circles. I know you can't ever stand being wrong--in this case, wrong in how you interpreted my argument--but you are just going to have to suck it in this once. Can you be a big boy and do that?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:57pm

i'm not wrong on this and the fact that you can try to be cute, doesn't change it. your initial statement, which you have yet to fully justify or qualify, is wrong. that's what started this. comparing religious folk who believe that you love the sinner, but hate the sin, to nazis. it's wrong and if you can't see that you're too far gone to merit worth.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/20/04 at 11:59pm

You NEVER EVER EVER make such grand comparisons.

I will not change my opinion. Hatred is hatred. You can not hide behind your religious beliefs whether you want to deny me equal rights in this country or kill me.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:04am

What's everyones favorite kind of Entenmanns? I love the banana crunch cake.

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:08am

Look at the bunny!
Look at the bunny!
Bunny. bunny, bunny, bunny, bunny!

I like the cheese cake, Matt.
It's scrumptious.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:09am

i love the chocalate chocalate chip cookies, yum!

yep, see there it is, denying rights is equal to killing. man you are lucky you grew up in america. with black and white views like that you'd be a good little fascist or communist or whatever "-ist" had available to you. you know they say the worst of the nazis were those that were in the closet. now i know you stormed out a while ago, but still...

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:10am

nice try, but...YAWN. At least you can't call me wishy washy tonight.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:15am

i can call you whatever i want. whether or not it actuallly applies is for history to decide, you pink commie f**kstick. that was meant in a smiling happy way.

and to apersand, ya know, the site existed before ya came around and jrb and i have fought much worse than this in the past. take your bunnies and...jrb?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:17am

I know you have been worse than tonight--I've not even broken a sweat. It's been too easy tonight. I'm sure we will be in the ring again soon, but until then--have a lovely evening.

Updated On: 6/21/04 at 12:17 AM

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 12:19am

Yes, I know the existed before I came around.

*picks up bunny, puts it in a duffel bag*

Call me if you need me.

*exits stage*

[bythesword84]

Posted: 6/21/04 at 1:21am

By all means, continue your fighting, this isn't an attempt to join in the fight or to really say anything other than this:

In defense of my religious schooling background, I have to say that not all religious schools breed hatred, etc. I'm sure you know that. Just thought I'd give you some hope for religious schools since mine certainly didn't do that. If it did I don't think we'd have had so many students be openly gay.


...and that's all I really had to say.