#26
Posted: 8/3/04 at 11:45am
or not.
Stop worrying about what I'm doing -- focus instead on what you're eating.
Speaking of flip-flops — Page 2
#27
Posted: 8/3/04 at 11:47am
But probably not.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#28
Posted: 8/3/04 at 11:51am
I'm not sure the earlier menstruation thing is really true, or if it's just based on anecdotal evidence of outliers. Generations ago, "adolescence" didn't exist. What we consider adolescence was what people then considered adulthood already. But when kids today go through the changes that make them physical adults, they aren't considered mentally adult- not even close. That disparity is the problem. That's why it might be perceived that "kids" have adult bodies nowadays.
#29
Posted: 8/3/04 at 11:52am
See?
Stop worrying about what I'm doing -- focus instead on what you're eating.
#30
Posted: 8/3/04 at 11:54am
And that's why Laura could marry Manly, even though he was an adult when she was still a half-pint.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#31
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:04pm
"But when kids today go through the changes that make them physical adults, they aren't considered mentally adult- not even close. That disparity is the problem."
I know that, but if their bodies are urging and commanding them to do something sexual and they have to scratch that itch, better they should do it with protection to avoid infection. I write as someone who perfected techniques at the age of 12 that still get him praised to this day. Looking back, I realize I was too young, but there was no way to tell Little Elvis that back in the 1970s.
I know that, but if their bodies are urging and commanding them to do something sexual and they have to scratch that itch, better they should do it with protection to avoid infection. I write as someone who perfected techniques at the age of 12 that still get him praised to this day. Looking back, I realize I was too young, but there was no way to tell Little Elvis that back in the 1970s.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#32
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:13pm
Robbie- you made me laugh out loud....I love Little House!
"It never bothered me that she called me a c*nt, it bothered me that I answered to it!" Carol Channing about Ethel Merman filming an episode of "The Love Boat"
#33
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:22pm
Namo, yes, I understand what you are saying about sexual drive and everything. I do understand. I don't want to go into it, but I've been there too. I think that everyone has at one point.
Yes, yes, education on this is right. And I think that also what must be taught is that condoms are not 100% effective and that students must be able to face the consequences if the condom breaks. They can't depend on that 100% alone to protect them during sex.
What I think has to be taught here, is that there is one small chance that a teen female might wind up pregnant, and sometimes it's just better to wait until you're older to take that chance. (I don't want to go into the abortion thing here, but I REALLY think that if it's going to be legal, no one under 18 can have an abortion, period.)
But in a way, I think that handing out condoms will encourage more children to have sex than not handing them out. Whether it be 5 children or 10. And if they are taught about everything well, and the consequences, I think that it will ultimately be their fault if something goes wrong.
"But Namo, some people don't like the idea of teenagers having sex. Let's just close our eyes and wish we were back in Stepford. "
Oh come on. Yeah, because outside of Stepford, it's really okay for 13 and 14 year olds to be having sex. Oh yes.
Yes, yes, education on this is right. And I think that also what must be taught is that condoms are not 100% effective and that students must be able to face the consequences if the condom breaks. They can't depend on that 100% alone to protect them during sex.
What I think has to be taught here, is that there is one small chance that a teen female might wind up pregnant, and sometimes it's just better to wait until you're older to take that chance. (I don't want to go into the abortion thing here, but I REALLY think that if it's going to be legal, no one under 18 can have an abortion, period.)
But in a way, I think that handing out condoms will encourage more children to have sex than not handing them out. Whether it be 5 children or 10. And if they are taught about everything well, and the consequences, I think that it will ultimately be their fault if something goes wrong.
"But Namo, some people don't like the idea of teenagers having sex. Let's just close our eyes and wish we were back in Stepford. "
Oh come on. Yeah, because outside of Stepford, it's really okay for 13 and 14 year olds to be having sex. Oh yes.
#34
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:24pm
Holy frig, double post.
Updated On: 8/3/04 at 12:24 PM
#35
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:29pm
but I REALLY think that if it's going to be legal, no one under 18 can have an abortion, period.
Excuse my ignorance on the subject, but aren't young girls likely to not be quite developed enough to carry a pregnancy to term healthily, even if they're capable of becoming pregnant?
And to get to a subject I'm not ignorant about, young girls are the least qualified of parents. Please tell me you wouldn't rather have babies thrown into dumpsters and toilets or neglected or left for the foster system.
Excuse my ignorance on the subject, but aren't young girls likely to not be quite developed enough to carry a pregnancy to term healthily, even if they're capable of becoming pregnant?
And to get to a subject I'm not ignorant about, young girls are the least qualified of parents. Please tell me you wouldn't rather have babies thrown into dumpsters and toilets or neglected or left for the foster system.
#36
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:31pm
But Gwen, absolutely scientific research disputes this fact: "But in a way, I think that handing out condoms will encourage more children to have sex than not handing them out."
I'm glad you only think this "in a way," and I know the attractiveness of thinking that our gut instincts are correct, but it's simply wrong. And I notice you keep using the language "handing them out" which clearly implies hedonistic teachers walking up and down the rows of seats in a classroom and saying "Go forth and don't multiply." The ability to go to a health center in a school and GET condoms is what we are really talking about here. And there is absolutely no evidence that shows that it encourages young people who are not going to engage sexually to suddenly start. None. Not even "in a way."
I wholeheartedly disagree with your ban on abortions for people under 18. Do you think that would stop them from getting them? Because it won't. And there will be plenty of under-18 year old dead young women thanks to a rule like that. But I guess they would have their whole afterlife to think about what they have done.
I find that your entire tone is very punitive. It will be "their fault if something goes wrong." Well, I guess that's why you want to undermine the health message of condom access. "You can use these but they might break." 99% of condom failure is due to inappropriate application. That's where health education comes in.
I'm glad you only think this "in a way," and I know the attractiveness of thinking that our gut instincts are correct, but it's simply wrong. And I notice you keep using the language "handing them out" which clearly implies hedonistic teachers walking up and down the rows of seats in a classroom and saying "Go forth and don't multiply." The ability to go to a health center in a school and GET condoms is what we are really talking about here. And there is absolutely no evidence that shows that it encourages young people who are not going to engage sexually to suddenly start. None. Not even "in a way."
I wholeheartedly disagree with your ban on abortions for people under 18. Do you think that would stop them from getting them? Because it won't. And there will be plenty of under-18 year old dead young women thanks to a rule like that. But I guess they would have their whole afterlife to think about what they have done.
I find that your entire tone is very punitive. It will be "their fault if something goes wrong." Well, I guess that's why you want to undermine the health message of condom access. "You can use these but they might break." 99% of condom failure is due to inappropriate application. That's where health education comes in.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#38
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:44pm
Gah, that reminds me of The Cider House Rules. The book, that is.
#39
Posted: 8/3/04 at 12:55pm
Loved that book. I love that Gwen wants to not have condoms available for young people because in her mind it might encourage five or maybe even 10 to have sex. Which evidence proves it will not. But she doesn't even seem willing to engage in any numbers games for how many would be dead from botched amateur abortions.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#40
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:07pm
It's not that I don't know anything, but I'm arguing on the base that I don't think it's okay for people of such a young age to be having sex.
I don't think that we're going to get anywhere in the argument both ways if casual sex at a young age is okay with whoever is responding to my post.
I don't think that we're going to get anywhere in the argument both ways if casual sex at a young age is okay with whoever is responding to my post.
#41
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:11pm
Guenevere - I think the difference is, even if some agree that it's too young for sex (which a couple have stated quite clearly) they acknowledge it's still going to happen - and advocate doing something about it rather than pretend it doesn't exist.
#42
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:12pm
NO ONE SAID THAT IT WAS OK!!!!!!
They just said IT HAPPENS! So we need to deal with the REALITY.
Are you hearing this?
They just said IT HAPPENS! So we need to deal with the REALITY.
Are you hearing this?
#43
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:15pm
Giving condoms to high schoolers doesn't advocate sex among them. Think of it as a public safety thing.
#44
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:15pm
Well, see, health care and wellness can not be decided by people who feel as if their opinion of what is okay or not applies to everybody. That's bad science, that's bad medicine, that's bad public policy.
It doesn't matter whether young people having sex is okay to you or me or not. What matters is that many young people ARE having sex. So, the question comes down to whether or not they can have access to the very information and supplies that can protect them from disease and unwanted pregnancy. You seem to think not. And you seem to think they should in some way be punished for doing things that are not okay to or for you.
Forgive me, but I really wouldn't want somebody with opinions like yours to be making decisions about the health and wellness of my children. If I had any. That I knew about.
It doesn't matter whether young people having sex is okay to you or me or not. What matters is that many young people ARE having sex. So, the question comes down to whether or not they can have access to the very information and supplies that can protect them from disease and unwanted pregnancy. You seem to think not. And you seem to think they should in some way be punished for doing things that are not okay to or for you.
Forgive me, but I really wouldn't want somebody with opinions like yours to be making decisions about the health and wellness of my children. If I had any. That I knew about.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#45
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:20pm
"You seem to think not. And you seem to think they should in some way be punished for doing things that are not okay to or for you."
I don't think that they need to be punished, but some teens really act that once they have a condom, it's going to be okay, nothing is going to happen, etc. And if they are taught about the fact that the condom may break, and that there ARE consequences, once they already KNOW that there is a chance that someone may get infected or pregnant- whose fault is it when it happens?
If a school educates on all of that, and something happens- is it the school's fault? No. That's what I'm trying to say.
I don't think that they need to be punished, but some teens really act that once they have a condom, it's going to be okay, nothing is going to happen, etc. And if they are taught about the fact that the condom may break, and that there ARE consequences, once they already KNOW that there is a chance that someone may get infected or pregnant- whose fault is it when it happens?
If a school educates on all of that, and something happens- is it the school's fault? No. That's what I'm trying to say.
Updated On: 8/3/04 at 01:20 PM
#46
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:23pm
If a school educates on all of that, and the teens don't really listen to any of it- is it the school's fault? No. That's what I'm trying to say.
Agreed. That's going to happen no matter what. So we want to keep them as safe as possible when it does.
Agreed. That's going to happen no matter what. So we want to keep them as safe as possible when it does.
#47
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:28pm
Plum- I totally edited that because I thought that it would be taken the wrong way- but yeah.
Okay, I'm not a guy so I don't know how it goes- but how hard is it to buy condoms? Besides the emabarrassment factor. If they really wanted to have sex, they would either buy them or get them anywhere else.
I think that when most teens have sex and they don't put on a condom, it's not just "Oh, gee, I don't have one," most teens get so worried because it's the heat of the moment, it may seem planned, etc. etc. What can the school do about THAT?
Okay, I'm not a guy so I don't know how it goes- but how hard is it to buy condoms? Besides the emabarrassment factor. If they really wanted to have sex, they would either buy them or get them anywhere else.
I think that when most teens have sex and they don't put on a condom, it's not just "Oh, gee, I don't have one," most teens get so worried because it's the heat of the moment, it may seem planned, etc. etc. What can the school do about THAT?
Updated On: 8/3/04 at 01:28 PM
#48
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:33pm
Encourage them to use protection. Always. Give them several tests on all the different kinds of STDs and their symptoms and effects. Show them that Miracle of Life video, which, in addition to having a very detailed explanation of conception from the biological point of view, also shows a live childbirth, head-on. Explain every single kind of protection extensively- the pros and cons, monetary cost, the success rates, etc. Test on that, too.
Both my middle school and high school did that, and they were in two different districts. When you educate about sex, you demystify it and make kids more likely to see the practical implications of it. When they see the practical implications, they're more likely to think of protection and less likely to worry about whether it's "planned."
Both my middle school and high school did that, and they were in two different districts. When you educate about sex, you demystify it and make kids more likely to see the practical implications of it. When they see the practical implications, they're more likely to think of protection and less likely to worry about whether it's "planned."
Updated On: 8/3/04 at 01:33 PM
#49
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:34pm
how did this go from a nice discussion of footwear to the cage death match that it's become? not that i mind of course, i like a good brawl. but perhaps ya'll might try to find some middle ground upon which you can agree.
tenn pregnancy - bad
teens with std's - bad
teens having sex - bad (unless you like that which i sure as hell did when i was a teen)
these things i think we can all agree on. you're not going to stop kids from having sex, no matter how you try to scare them (as one who's been sexually active in one way or another since 5, i speak with authority). we've always had teen pregnancy, but now with hiv it's not just creating life we should be worried about but the taking of it as well.
speaking for me and me alone, i think that you have to assume that kids are going to have sex. teach abstinence as the most effective form of birth control and as the only foolproof manner by which to avoid disease. but at the same time, make sure that they understand that if they do choose to become sexually active, how they can protect themselves. sure let them know that condoms can break, they can forget to take the pill, all of those things, but give them the option to make informed decisions. c'mon, i read the stories of kids in grade school with the sexual games of tradin a sexual act for a bracelet and i taught 7th graders and they are sexually active and completely ignorant of the consequences. so teach consequences. teach how to avoid them. cover both bases, by saying that abstinence works 100% of the time, but if that's not something you can do, at least use these means by which you can do a better job of trying to protect yourself and whoever else is involved.
somehow i'm missing something obvious in this i know.
tenn pregnancy - bad
teens with std's - bad
teens having sex - bad (unless you like that which i sure as hell did when i was a teen)
these things i think we can all agree on. you're not going to stop kids from having sex, no matter how you try to scare them (as one who's been sexually active in one way or another since 5, i speak with authority). we've always had teen pregnancy, but now with hiv it's not just creating life we should be worried about but the taking of it as well.
speaking for me and me alone, i think that you have to assume that kids are going to have sex. teach abstinence as the most effective form of birth control and as the only foolproof manner by which to avoid disease. but at the same time, make sure that they understand that if they do choose to become sexually active, how they can protect themselves. sure let them know that condoms can break, they can forget to take the pill, all of those things, but give them the option to make informed decisions. c'mon, i read the stories of kids in grade school with the sexual games of tradin a sexual act for a bracelet and i taught 7th graders and they are sexually active and completely ignorant of the consequences. so teach consequences. teach how to avoid them. cover both bases, by saying that abstinence works 100% of the time, but if that's not something you can do, at least use these means by which you can do a better job of trying to protect yourself and whoever else is involved.
somehow i'm missing something obvious in this i know.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
Updated On: 8/3/04 at 01:34 PM
#50
Posted: 8/3/04 at 1:36pm
Exactly, Plum.
The school should educate these young adults as to all of their options. They should arm them with the tools that will lead them to make healthy, responsible, adult decisions.
The school should educate these young adults as to all of their options. They should arm them with the tools that will lead them to make healthy, responsible, adult decisions.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
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