The second U.S. Civil War

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 12:41pm

Anyone else getting worried?

Seems like we're headed steadily in that direction now, don't you think?

I'm beginning to believe we'll see it within our lifetimes.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 12:47pm

Like a literal one? No, unless the sides I'm assuming you mean are different, as one side doesn't really tend to be pro guns in the hands of people.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 12:48pm

Close? You mean metaphorically I'm assuming.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:11pm

No, I mean a literal civil war.

Congressmen are seriously (yes, seriously) introducing secession papers in several states now. While the majority isn't taking them very seriously, the call to take action is increasing.

The divide between political parties is growing wider each year. And more aggressive and outwardly angry. Cities and states are polarizing with vastly different value systems between the regions, and vastly different political and religious beliefs and levels of tolerance. We are quickly becoming two separate nations. I see it getting worse over time.

It's not a joke or a trick question.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:24pm

I think those people and views are relatively fringe to be honest. They're just making news b/c the far-right is so completely lost. They have no party leaders and can't even agree on an ideology.

But they'll get their groove (such as it is) back and re-organize. I'm not happy about that mind you, I'm just stating what I think will happen.

I can't see people actually picking up guns and shooting their neighbors.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:25pm

How come it's not un-American when THEY do it?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:29pm

I guess I don't see two clearly delineated sides (except for crazy and not).

As Taz points out, there's no coherent ideology.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:32pm

I say "Good riddance" to any state that wishes to secede.

And I think the divide isn't any more than it was five or six years ago. The difference is which party is the minority ruling party now. And the ruling party will bend to them. And then they will get back in power.

Same as it ever was.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:34pm

I completely agree with you Phyl. Who's ever not in power always gets pissed off and talks about secession.

It's just hot air.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:39pm

Well, to be fair, I've never heard Democratic officials talk about secession, only Republicans.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:39pm

The war will be fought differently. Both sides will go to Walmart and have a slap off!

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:40pm

OMG, I was going to make a similar comment SNAFU.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:45pm

yes, but you're an alarmist in general romantico.

There's not going to be any civil war.

Updated On: 9/3/09 at 01:45 PM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:49pm

If either of you boys says "war" just once again, I'll go in the house and slam the door.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:51pm

I don't think it will be an actual war, but I do think there will be something major. The people I consider crazy are getting crazier. The problem is, just like with everything else, no one thinks that THEY are wrong. Someone will do something stupid. I LOVE this country, but I am not sad to be leaving a lot of this bull**** behind next year.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 1:52pm

Where are you going JG?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:00pm

I do wonder if this country can ever be "Governable" again. I know that when (if) we ever elect a Republican president again, I will do anything to obstruct every single thing he (or she) attempts.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:06pm

I think it's dangerous to think that these "nuts" (if you will) are some tiny, vocal minority. Maybe that's true where you live. Maybe in the big cities. Just step outside of the comfort zone for five minutes, and you'll be very surprised what's out there.

It's not a tiny minority. And it's growing in size as well as in commitment to the cause.

As far as a reason to secede, they already have one. Well, more than one. It's not as simple as a single issue of slavery. The secession papers state clearly what they want. A return to God-fearing, Christian values. That's only the beginning. They want to be able to run their businesses exactly as they see fit without government interference. They don't want gay people. They don't want foreigners. They don't want freedom of speech. They want one unified opinion of God and country.

I don't think it's well thought out. Of course the Confederate secession wasn't well thought out either. Arrogance was the driving force back then. Just as it is today. Arrogance and ignorance. And while I don't think they would win by any means. I do think they would fight. And fight to the death for what they believe in. This is the very foundation of their beings. IT represents "who they are" as God-and-country-loving Americans. Who wouldn't fight to the death for that? And I think I'm seeing it coming. Maybe not for decades yet. But it's horrible.

(cue: "And I'm proud to be an American ... ")

The conceit of the Democrats is that they are convinced "these Republicans" will eventually come around and listen to reason. Or that a few terrorist acts ending in a justified punishment will quiet them down. Why would they quiet down? They don't think the Democrat ideal is reasonable at all. They think it's equally insane. So there's a bit of ignorance on both sides.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:08pm

It's checks and balances. This is how it's supposed to work. When there gets to be too much gridlock and nothing happens then the voters will rectify the ratios.

We haven't had an even split for some time don't forget. It's been heavy majority GOP and then heavy majority Democrat for the past several years.

I think, and it's only my humble opinion, that the dems will lose some seats in November. When there is a more partisan congress, party member tend vote less along party lines clearing the obstacles for progress on various issues.

Updated On: 9/3/09 at 02:08 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:12pm

I do think the gridlock has escalated this tension. We're not swinging back and forth between governing parties over presidential terms now. We've been stuck in a solid traffic jam for way too long. And we know what that can do to people.

I also think that Reggie's Scarlett O'Hara impersonation made me laugh a lot.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:15pm

well it stands to reason that the far right are the ones who are going to be the most vocal at this time. I mean, they're on the losing team, so to speak.

I'm sure they said the same thing about all of us people who thought the Iraq war was a disaster and wrong. But they didn't need to make a show of their views b/c their guy was in the House.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:19pm

But that is just not factually true- it's what the Republicans are selling.

Democrats had control of congress through almost all the "Reagan revolution" and worked with him. Bill Clinton had a republican Congress half his term and managed to work with them.

Republicans have explicitly declared war on this president.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:19pm

I have all my paperwork together for my application for a Swedish residence permit sitting right beside me. Socialism, here I come. Socialism, same-sex marriage, free education, national health care, great chocolate... all that bad stuff.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:19pm

Yes, but the difference now is the "angry mob mentality" that is consuming them. We haven't seen that before in a long while.

You'd have to go back to the Hippies and the counter-revolution of the '60s to find that much active, aggressive dissent. And we came close to a civil war back then, too.

Hopefully, you're right. We'll get through it. I'd hate to think of the outcome if we don't.

Updated On: 9/3/09 at 02:19 PM

[Roscoe]

Posted: 9/3/09 at 2:19pm

I doubt there'll be anything as organized as a Civil War as such. I do think the wackos will get wackier, and there are almost certainly some big ugly acts of domestic terror in our future.