Times Square R.I.P. — Page 2

But these lawmakers don't consider everyone. For example, when Bloomberg banned smoking in bars, smokers went out on the sidewalk to smoke. So instead of just affecting those few people in the bar, they now force everyone to walk through their clouds of smoke.

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For crap's sake, what about all the bus and car and truck fumes, pollution, etc??? Bloomberg is freaking nuts. Now there's a new PSA ad on TV, telling us to drink water, not soda. Good use of $$$ (not), Bloomie. Stop trying to legislate nonsense. People can make their own decisions. I'm dying to see "enforcement" of this no smoking in parks or TS..lol! Just for the record I HATE smoke (but love common sense civil liberties) and live 1 block from the Lincoln Tunnel. Can Bloomberg legislate the air I breathe everyday FROM THE INSANE TRAFFIC ON nINTH aVE???

"The choice of the smoker, or the choice of the people who is forced to inhale the fumes?"

But that argument doesn't really hold up in a place like Central Park where you wouldn't even know that a person is smoking. Each viewpoint has to give a little bit.

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Just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down

Spit Spot

I'm practically perfect in every way.

Yours truly

Nanny Bloomberg

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I'm going to chime in as someone who grew up with severe asthma (numerous asthma attacks resulting in hospitalization, a mother who was near chain smoker level, and spent many a summer at a camp for kids with terminal illness, etc) that has gradually gotten better but still battles with it at times.

I love this law. Yes, there are SOME considerate smokers, and I appreciate them, but they are a SEVERE minority. SEVER. MINORITY.

To those who say that you can't tell that someone is smoking - yes. YES, I CAN. Not only can I smell the smoke, I can physically feel my breathing become labored and my chest tighten. For those who don't know that feeling as an asthmatic, it is scary. I have felt it in parks, I have felt it on sidewalks, I have felt in bars / restaurants in other cities where they still allow it in public. No one is telling you that you can't smoke. You are being told that you can't force ME to smoke... because that is what you are doing. And I physically can not breathe when smoke is being blown on me by someone lighting up in a crowd.

If people did clean up after themselves and STOPPED with the selfish "me me me me, I can do whatever I want, wherever I want" then laws such as this wouldn't be needed quite so badly. Your desire to feed your addiction does NOT outweigh the absolute necessity of others to be able to breathe to live.

As far as public health in general, and personal health, I have spent years watch my aunt slowly slip away from my due to severe Emphysema that was brought on by decades of heavy smoking. She is actually currently in a care facility because of it and her lung capacity is only 10%. She's spent years on an oxygen tank. Due to age and other health issues, a transplant is hopeless. Do you want to know how that feels? I hear the same cough that my aunt suffers developing in my mother and I hear it get worse every year, so I see own the road. Do you want to know how that feels too?

Let's not forget that the original thesis of this thread is that a ban on smoking outdoors in Times Square is going to "kill it."

According to the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released in the Fall of 2010, 1 in 5 adults smokes cigarettes. So let's say, without a shred of evidence that this would ever happen, 20% of the population simply REFUSES to set foot or spend money in Times Square ever again because they are no longer "free" to make their "choice" that, some say, has not a single impact on the lives, comfort or well-being of others. Would a 20% drop in business kill Times Square? Probably just tobacco shops.

Oh, and, as an aside, the same MMWR states findings that "found that despite an increasing number of laws that restrict smoking in public places, about 40 percent of nonsmoking adults and 54 percent of children still show evidence of tobacco exposure through secondhand smoke. Virtually all children who live with smokers -- 98 percent -- have some exposure to the toxic chemicals."

But, you know, people make their choices and maneuver their butts in their hands and around their bodies like baton twirlers in a parade and that, you know, completely solves the problem!

We all make all sorts of choices in our lives every single day, many of which have an impact on the people and environment around us. And one of the defense mechanisms we human beings use is that we try to find ways to separate what it is WE do from what the PROBLEM PEOPLE do. It's human nature and it's mostly an illusion to help us a) feel better than the groups we consider "worse" than us and b) soothe the stress and guilt we have by helping us convince ourselves we're "not that bad."

I've done extensive work with people with addictions over the years and it is a truism that kicking tobacco addiction is actually more difficult than kicking heroin. And even heroin addicts have a hierarchy that psychologically lets them off the hook. Those who snort heroin look down on the injectors. Injectors who use a clean needle every time look down on those who share. EVERYBODY hates the crack users. Everybody thinks they're light users and can think of examples that set them aside from the "bad" users.

Roxy and Goth can invoke the "nanny state" trope (because it's what they do) but I wonder, in their cracked libertarian worldview, just who it is they expect should foot the enormous medical cost associated with the simple little "choice" of taking up smoking?



Source material

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That's your answer to my question?

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I don't visit Times Square. No one should.

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"The more interesting question is 'Who has the right to curb another person's freedom?'"

Federal, state, and local governments.

But Goth, whose rights are more important? The smoker who has the choice or the bystander who doesn't? Since all men are created equal, wouldn't the ONLY sensible answer be for the one who DOES have a choice to do it in a place that doesn't infringe upon someone else's right to be smoke free?

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Eris0303,
Sorry about the delay.. have to love Friday work days.
Actually, exhaust from vehicles DOES both my lungs a little bit, but cigarettes DO affect me significantly more. It's one of those things that I find difficult to fully explain to someone who hasn't experienced it, but I wouldn't wish for someone to experience. It's scary.

A friend of mine just posted this on Facebook. I thought I'd share it.

Some years ago Marc Anthony was doing one of those outdoor concerts at the Today show, so I went. In the rain, with a hole in my boot..., so my foot was a big white prune by the time I got home seven hours later, but I had a wonderful place to stand right up front because I got there at 2 AM. Anyway, it's an outdoor concert, so I lit a cigarette, and this little bottle-blonde dye job with a Long Island accent actually knocked it out of my hand into the wet street with the words, "Put that out."

About seventeen she was, and not, "Could you please put that out?" or "I'd appreciate if you'd put that out," but an actual command. "Put that out."

I lit another one, blew smoke in her face and said, "No."

She stared at me and said, "Well, I'm allergic."

I stared back at her and said, "Well, we're outside."

Now she REALLY stared back and said, "It's disgusting."

I said, "Well...so are your black roots, but am I complaining?"

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