Turning a gay teen straight ... on "Good Morning America"- Page 3

[The Grovers Corners Yenta]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:56pm

Ok, I am a straight woman. My question is how does one change what G-d created in the first place? I mean, G-d created straight, gay, bi etc. I didn't realize that there were people who were more powerful than G-d. And just for the record, you can change someone who is black to white..........Michael Jackson.

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:56pm

That's exactly what it is, eyeonbroadway. Even the leader of the program said in the Times that he still found men attractive.

The real problem occurs when these ex-gay folks marry and then ruin two people's lives.

[insomniak]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:59pm

Diva, that made my day.

I pity the poor boys who attend these camps. I can't even imagine what kind of pyschological problems they create.

[JMVR]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:02pm

I have heard all about these ex-gays and what I'd REALLY like to see is a narrow-minded, extremist bigot turned into a sensible human being capable of loving and accepting without judging and just letting people live their lives. They could be called ex-homophobes ex-ignorant or something and they could all go and tell their stories on GMA and THEN I'd get up early and watch!

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:08pm

^^^^^
Best. Post. Ever.




This whole story is just absolutely appalling to me.

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 01:08 PM

[eyeonbroadway]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:11pm

This is oppression masquerading as indignant righteousnous. I can understand and respect the struggle that conservative Christians must have reconciling what they have been programmed to believe against a more compassionate, tolerant perspective but this isn't that. This is "I'm so right that there's no room for question". This is "you are gay and therefore a sinner, so I'm going to help save you by teaching you how NOT to be sinner in my eyes...ooops, I mean God's eyes..."

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:16pm

John Paulk, who was featured in many of those ads in the mid 90s promoting the exgay ministries has been caught in gays bars since...

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:18pm

I guess I don't see much of a story here. I spent my college years turning straight teens gay- it was much easier than this process described above, it usually took a couple of beers and a back rub.

I would tune in though if the promo ran: Is it possible to turn a straight teen gay? This man says YES and will demonstrate tomorrow on Good Morning America!

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:21pm

History has shown that people, who aren't true to themselves, become miserable people. In a world where we've been brought up to believe that homosexuality is wrong, so many men find themselves in sham marriages that usually end in a divorce once the closeted partner finally come to terms with who he is.

I just read a letter in an advice column from a 60-year-old man who is just now coming out of the closet, after being married, and raising a family. His son still lives at home with him (even though the guys married) and told his father he would kill him if he ever brought a guy home. It’s the father’s home! It broke my heart, because the father was asking if he’s the one that’s wrong. I couldn’t imagine waiting 60 years to finally be the person you were born to be.

And, as far as the ‘ex-gays’ claiming that they are still attracted to men, well, that just tells me that they are still gay, just not ‘practicing’.

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:24pm

JMVR wonderful post!

[eyeonbroadway]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:27pm

JoeKv99, I can't tell if you're serious or not... If it's "easy" to turn a truly straight guy gay, then that lends credence to one of the basic fears of the conservative Christians: that if society "accepts" homosexuality as normal, then it could lead to the dissolution of the family. I've always felt that fear was ludicrous; that guys who are genetically structured to be attracted to the opposite sex will play out that attraction and make babies...regardless of whether society is tolerant of homosexuality or not...

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:31pm

Joe just wants to watch

[bella cantato]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:32pm

Okay.

Even the Catholic church admits that people are born either gay or straight.

This is coming from the church that refused to admit that the earth revolved around the sun (and not the other way around) until the 80s.

So if the Catholics can even admit that being gay is not a choice... I don't think there's much excuse out there for anyone else.

Also, my friend was telling me that researchers have recently discovered a gene in rats that shows whether their sexual preference is for males or females and they are looking for that similar gene in humans... So when we scientifically prove it (which I guess we haven't so far?)... obviously you can't change a gene.

And also.

Did you guys read the article on the website about the woman who said Mel Gibson was her converter bc he wore a skirt?

Are you KIDDING me?

Being gay is not a laughing matter... it is not a joke and it is not something that you can just... force out of yourself. If it was a choice, WHY on earth would anyone EVER choose a life of discrimination, a life of persecution for another human being to which they weren't truly sexually attracted? Speaking as a straight woman, I could never, ever, everrrrr force myself into sexual relations with another female. I just couldn't. It's just not possible. I can look at a woman and recognize that she is beautiful, but that doesn't mean I want to have sexual relations with her. So I can't see why or how someone could pretend to be interested, sexually, in someone that they aren't, just for the hell of it, knowing the life of persecution that it results in.

And also, this woman said that she had always hated men and now she doesn't... well it sounds to me like she has a lot more serious psychological issues that she needs to work out, rather than trying to change her sexuality. There are definitely lesbians out there who don't hate men and in fact, just bc you are a lesbian doesn't give you the right to hate all men. That is a different issue entirely.

UGH I am so frustrated with this close minded world that we live in.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=983209&page=1

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:33pm

I'm pretty sure he was kidding eyeonbroadway...

[bella cantato]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:39pm

BTW, I wanted to include this sermon that I have held on to for a while, which I think is just fabulous.

EDIT: I am not trying to convert you guys or anything. I just think this is great because it bears in mind the true meaning and purpose of Christianity. We tend to lose sight of that these days... it is particularly evident in camps like this, etc.

"A number of years ago, during a Sunday morning service, I asked for a show of hands of all who had ever been terribly wounded by someone close to them. Nearly every hand in the congregation went up. Next, I asked for hands to be raised if this wounding had been at the hands of Christians, church members, board members, clergy, or others in the church. Again, nearly every hand went up. I wasn't surprised. I grew up in a neighborhood that promised a bloody nose or a split lip nearly every day before and after school at the bus stop, yet, in days past, the greatest pain members of my family and I have ever received has been at the hands of Christian believers, pastors, board members, and denominational officials.

This happens, of course, when church people began to walk in a judgmental attitude toward their fellows. Are we, as Christians, permitted to judge when sin is discovered? Oh, absolutely! "But let a man judge himself" (Cor 11:28a NASB). In fact, we are to ruthlessly, relentlessly, mercilessly judge ourselves. On the other hand, when it is the sins of others that have been uncovered, "Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you"(Matthew 7:1-2 NASB).

We can always justify our violation of these scriptures by claiming that we ought to be "fruit inspectors," but the truth is that none of us are qualified to judge another, especially if we have a "log in our own eye," (Matt. 7:3-5) which all of us do. We are, rather, to understand that "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy" (Matthew 5:7). Does this mean that sin in the church is not to be dealt with? No, but while sin must never be covered up, great care must be taken to insure that the sinner is not uncovered. In Genesis 9, Noah becomes disgracefully drunk and naked following the flood. His son, Ham, discovers his father's sin and reports the incident to his brothers. It is not Noah, but the one who uncovered Noah's sin that received the curse. The two brothers, Shem and Japheth, did not make excuses for their father, but they refused to allow anyone else to see his condition. Significantly, Shem and Japheth received blessings for this action.

Certainly, this biblical principle is violated continually in the church today. Not only are the sins of people uncovered, they are done so with a certain glee and satisfaction! One nationally known television evangelist publicly proclaimed Oral Roberts to be "that fool in the tower in Tulsa." He, himself, was brought down in shame shortly thereafter. One reaps what one sows.

Biblically, here are our only true options: (1) We must ruthlessly, relentlessly, mercilessly judge ourselves. In doing so, we have an assurance that we shall not receive judgment. (2) We must stand in mercy with everyone else realizing that, if the Apostle Paul described himself as a "wretched man" who was the chief of sinners, we deceive ourselves if we think we are better than any other person. We stand in mercy because we are in need of mercy. One reaps what one sows.

Pope Benedict XVI said, "God, who became a lamb, tells us that the world is saved by the crucified, not by those who crucify." (The Rise of Benedict XVI, by John Allen, Jr., page 138 ). If one looks at the way that the church deals with its sinful, one would think we were followers of Pilate rather than followers of Jesus.

Honestly, I never pray that I "get what I deserve." What I deserve is judgment and condemnation for, in company with St. Paul, my heart is dark and "my sin is ever before me" (Psa 51:3b NASB). What I desire, rather, is mercy. And, if I have any hope or expectation of being a recipient of mercy, the path is clear: one reaps what one sows.

I shared these thoughts with someone recently who said, "If you take that approach, all you will have is a church full of sinners." My reply was, "We already have that. It's just a matter of degrees." In fact, there is no church anywhere that is not full of sinners. There is no pastor, deacon, priest, bishop, archbishop, patriarch, or pope that is without sin. "If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:9 NASB). All are in need to judge themselves and to walk in mercy toward others. In dealing with sin, Christian believers must always remember that correction, at its heart, must have the goals of reconciliation, redemption, and restoration. Too often the goals seem to be trial, condemnation, and crucifixion!

My most frequent personal prayer comes from the heritage of Eastern Orthodoxy, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." May God not give us what we deserve. May we not walk in the way of Pilate but in the way of Christ. May we have the guts to ruthlessly judge ourselves and the wisdom to extend extravagant mercy to all others. One reaps what one sows. Lord, have mercy! "

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 01:39 PM

Posted: 7/28/05 at 1:46pm

Joking joking...

Although it cuts right to the root of Christian Paranoia-- they do believe that "Gay" people can be turned straight and they worry that "Straight" people can be seduced to the gay lifestyle. And of course both sides are rot- what it is, is closeted folks changing their definitions.

I love to hear the stories of Ex-gays-- They STOP acting on their desires, find another Ex-Gay and "Begin" the heterosexual lifestyle. What they mean is that they "Pretend" to live the Hetero lifestyle and sneak around with same sex partners-- like that Ex-Gay who was on the cover of Newsweek, which only made him easier to spot at the local gay bar.

[robbiej]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 2:16pm

The problem I have with this is that it's child abuse. Forcing your children to go through a dangerous therapy that leaves them feeling ashamed and guilty and which could result in suicide can't be called anything but abuse.

Look, if grown people want to go 'ex-gay', fine...go ahead. Make that choice for yourself. I don't care. And in 10 years when they jump out the window, I still won't care.

But to do this to children? It's criminal. And lending ANY sort of creedence to this...discussing it like it might be an option is horrifying.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 2:33pm

But isn't there a LOT of legislation already on the books in many states claiming religious "therapy" cannot be prosecuted?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 2:56pm

Well, not unless they accidentally kill someone during an exorcism.

[CurtainUp]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 3:05pm

Nothing to say that hasn't been sad - this makes me so sad. Oy and if those rules aren't stereotypical, I don't know what is. There is some sweet irony:
-It is a "reparative" facility - I didn't realize gay people were broken, or needed reparing.
-The father wants to open his son up to all of the options; does he not realize what he is doing is, in fact, limiting his son?

And, yes, the idea of a teaser is to get the audience to watch and people will either be for htis idea or so appalled by it, that they will watch. I'm sure this isn't a promotion of teh idea.

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 03:05 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 4:15pm

John Paulk, who was featured in many of those ads in the mid 90s promoting the exgay ministries has been caught in gays bars since...

LOL, at first I thought this said Johan Paulik....

I'll get my mind out of the gutter now.

[lildogs]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 4:26pm

I believe in this particular case of Love In Action, the state has made them remove the word "therapy" from its website and other literature as they have no medical license to practice. So I guess in a small way, even the state is cracking down on these programs...

[TVBoy]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 4:43pm

As I anticipated last night, the story on GMA was fair, balanced, and thought provoking. The biggest benefit from a story like this is what is taking place right now, discussion. Intelligent discussion, at that.

I've heard many different people talk about the "GMA story" today. I also heard the phrases, "those idiots!" and "those poor boys!" many times. Some people are quick to attack the media when this type of story is broadcast. Why give a controversial group like this any media attention? Well, look at the outcome. If it sparks and generates intelligent discussion, it did its job. My hope is that those religious fanatics who believe being gay is wrong -- because their preacher tells them so -- will see their (radical) peers profiled on national television, "at their best," trying to change an innocent person into someone they are not. By having the boys on the show, which humanizes the story, I hope others across the country will open their eyes and see how wrong this type of "camp" is. Maybe some people, or other groups, will work to try to change what is taking place.

I spoke with one of my friends at GMA not too long ago. He says ABC has been flooded with calls. Viewers are asking how they can write letters, or call those in charge of this camp, telling the organizers how wrong they think this is. (Excellent!)

The well written promo got people to watch, the fair and balanced story brought national attention to an issue that needs to be discussed, now its up to us to carry on the discussion, intelligently -- which is exactly what you guys are doing (Johan Paulik, aside .

One more note, concerning the person who said there are better issues to focus on, such as the war -- I couldn't disagree with you more. Yes, unfortunately, we are at war, and it's an issue that does get played out all day and night on the nets and cable talk-fests. If GMA devoted its entire 2-hour broadcast, 6 days a week to the war, people would be complaining there's too much war coverage. I applaud GMA for devoting time to other important issues as well. From what I've heard all day, I think this is a story that has opened some eyes, and hopefully some hearts.

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 04:43 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 4:57pm

And then, of course, there was the badly produced 20/20 expose on the Matthew Shepard murder and how it wasn't really a hate crime...just a robbery. That was an egregious lapse in journalistic standards.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/28/05 at 5:09pm

TVBoy--I'm really impressed with your outlook. I'm one of those people who would have been pissed at a story like this being done. But I see your point beautifully. :)