Vatican document reportedly criticizes feminism, gay marriage

[Matt_G]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:19am

Well, at least the church isn't just attacking us Godless fags anymore. -


An upcoming Vatican statement on the roles of men and women criticizes feminism for what it calls an attempt to ignore the biological differences between the genders, German and Italian media reported Friday.

The 37-page document, expected to be released by the Vatican on Saturday, also calls on governments "to manage conditions so that women do not need to neglect their families if they want to pursue a job," according to the German daily Bild.

The Italian daily Corriere della Sera said the document attacks the "ideology of gender" and stresses that a woman "is not a copy of a man." It repeats the prohibition on women's becoming priests but suggests that women should have an important role in the church, the paper said. The document also addresses homosexuality, Bild reported, saying that "God wanted a Christian marriage, a marriage between a man and a woman" and not between people of the same gender. The document was written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the guardian of church orthodoxy as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the reports said.

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:37am

Oh, good. I felt kind of left out. All you "Godless Fags" were getting all of the attention from the Vatican. It's about time.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:38am

Hey, Little Squirrel - You should be busy getting pregnant instead of using the computer. Don't you know that's how God wants it?!

[Broadwaybaby614]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:41am

I know, I know...if you'll excuse me, I've got to finish my chores before my husband get home. He doesn't like it when dinner's not n the table.

*goes back into kitchen*

[LadyGuenevere]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:43am

Talk about taking it to the other extreme.

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:45am

It wasn't that bad...

[Unknown User]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:13am

Bobo - what, exactly, "wasn't that bad"?

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:22am

its wasn't like "women should be chained to the stove"

from the excerpts i read, it was just a outline for a healthy family.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:33am

Bobo - from your reference to what is described as a 'healthy family,' are we to assume that you would find other family situations 'unhealthy'?

[boborunstheshow]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:39am

okay, im not about to get into a rumble about my own beliefs. Im talking about what the document said. IT was outlining a healthy family. IT defined an unhealy family. Back off there kiddo.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:56am

Bobo - I in no way meant to imply a judgement of your beliefs, I was simply trying to get a clarification of them. Owing to the tone you have taken, however, I think your idea of not having this discussion is just fine. Have a good night.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 5:20am

Kinda makes the "pretending to fit in" comment from another thread resonate a little more, doesn't it?

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 6:11am

Oh yeah.

[SamIAm]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 8:36am

Here's hoping all the women on this board ARE in the kitchen, cooking for the bread winner...wait...oops...what's that you say? You ARE the bread winner? You go, girl.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 8:42am

Kuche, Kinder, Kirche.


Kitchen, Children, Church.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:16am

I believe in an America where all Americans can be treated equally. I think pointing out the differences in men and women and expecting all men to act one way and all women to act another is clearly a form of prejudice. Even within heterosexual men and women, this is foolish. People are individuals.

And there are many different types of families in this country. Who has the right to judge any family that is happy and functioning when so many "normal" families can not say the same?

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:34am

I agree, JRB. Two (heterosexual) parents, two kids, and a dog don't necessarily add up to a happy, or functional, family. I like to think that my family was as good as the next when it was just me, as a single parent, and my kids. I look around me now, at work, and among the healthiest, happiest kids to be found, are two young girls who were adopted, as infants, by a gay coworker and his partner.

The obtuse arrogance that is inherent in all those self-righteous "normal family" statements is just astounding. And offensive.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:43am

The catholic church annoys me...

I can say that because i am 'part' catholic. lol.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:43am

Pfft. There is no such thing as a normal family. That said, of course there are biological differences between men and women. Basic anatomy, folks. :) Men are, on average, bigger, stronger, and faster than women, for instance. And more top-heavy. That's not an insult or something. It's just true.

I think there are neurological differences between men and women as well, but I also think a lot of the differences in thinking between the genders come from societal pressures, so I wouldn't base too many decisions on what men or women are better at doing, mentally. In other words, I think the whole "women are more in touch with their emotions" thing is BS. But I do think it's possible that women tend to be better at multitasking while men tend to be better at devoting an insane amount of attention to one task. Who knows?

But really, calling on governments to manage conditions so women don't have to abandon their families to hold down a job? Sounds good to me. Bring on the child care. Thanks, Mr. Pope.

Or better yet, let the men stay home and cook. :) If women can do most of what men can do, I think men can do most of what women can do, too.

-Plum, member of an old-fashioned nuclear family

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:47am

"But I do think it's possible that women tend to be better at multitasking while men tend to be better at devoting an insane amount of attention to one task. Who knows?"

This is my point. You (and others) may have concluded this to be a fair sterotype of men and women. But, what is the point? Plenty of men and women are just the opposite of this. So why bother? Plenty of men and women defy everything you just said. So, my point is--stop trying to separate the two sexes. Just let people be people.

And, in this country, we should always let people be individuals. But, of course, we aren't there yet. Everything is "men are from mars, women are from venus", gay/straight, black/white, etc etc.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:51am

Just let people be people.

Amen. But to get back to real neurology/psychology, it is a natural tendency of the human brain to simplify. There's just too many things going on in the world for our brains to handle it all. That's why, unless you're trained or have a special interest in such things, you don't remember the eye color of the clerk who got you coffee at that gas station in 1997. Or even this morning.

So when we see people, we instantly make certain assessments- female, short, Hispanic, whatever. And we use those assessments to judge, no matter how open-minded we are. It's natural. What needs to be changed is what you associate "female" or "male" with. Updated On: 8/2/04 at 11:51 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:54am

yes--of course we do all that.

I am speaking of making or rather holding judgments of people and of making laws, etc.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 12:00pm

While I tend to agree that women tend to take multi-tasking for granted, I think it developed as a role expectation as women moved out of the full time homemaker role and went back into the workforce. There was great pressure, both external, and from within ourselves, to prove that we COULD, in fact, do it all. It's not a gender specific trait at all...it's the result of societal pressure to not be a failure at home while trying to be successful in the professional world.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 12:23pm

I disagree, iflitifloat. Evolution doesn't happen in 2 or 3 generations.

[J LA]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 12:59pm

Who is so arrogant that they think they can define "normal" for a a family????? I am the bread winner and the mommy in my family and my husband has been the "stay at home" parent for seven years. Are we normal?? My definition of a healthy family is when the kids are priority, not money or materialistic things. Any two loving people can accomplish this!
The Catholic church should just worry about the behavior of their own priests and let the rest of the world alone! Oh yes, I am a Catholic, too.