Voter Fraud

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:36am

It may just sound like "sour grapes" to some, and ultimately I don't think it's going to change anything, but something tells me we're going to be hearing a lot more about this in the coming days. I said it before and I'll say it again; too many things just don't add up. (No pun intended)

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm

Updated On: 11/7/04 at 12:36 AM

[Westopher]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:40am

Even is Bush lost Florida, he still would have won I beleive. Well, it would have been a tie most liklely, but when there is a tie the House chooses the President. Gee, I guess what would happen then...

[Plum]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:44am

If Bush had lost Florida during Election Night, people would have been more eager to fight over Ohio.

They used Diebold machines, didn't they? I trust those people about as far as I can throw them.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:45am

Not surprised at all. It just doesn't make sense that Florida went to Bush with such a large margin--It was just as close as Ohio in all the polls. I am baffled that the news keeps saying the exit polls were way off--and don't realize that could be a HINT. Half of all Florida votes were computer. 40 million computer votes were made across the country. Hmmmmm.

However, it will take hard proof that fraud took place--and if that exists, I pray it will be brought to light ASAP.

Still keeping my eye on Ohio--where 3890+ votes were accidently given to Bush in one county.

I'm not giving up hope until all the votes are counted.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:48am

It's not happening, jrb. And I think in many ways that would be even worse for the country than another Bush term, because it wrecks the system itself.

[grownupgroupie]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:48am

Not so much, Westopher--do the math. Bush 286. Kerry 252.

Florida has 27 electoral votes. 270 votes to win. If Florida had gone to Kerry, HE would have won.

Which may be neither here nor there, but if you had read the article (and did you? Because the article pointed to an overall trend, not just to Florida) I don't think the win or loss of Florida would have been your first point.

I agree Plum--Ohio was much easier to let go of without Florida in the mix. Unfortunately.

[Westopher]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:48am

Well Florida has been doing increasingly well after some terrible hits by both a frost (orange crop was destroyed) and a couple of hurricanes. When people are doing well, they generally don't like to change who's in charge.

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:48am

The same machines (Diebold) that were used in many counties in Florida were also used throughout Ohio. Chief Executive of Diebold, Walden O'Dell, stated in a fund-rasing letter to Republicans in August of 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

Updated On: 11/7/04 at 12:48 AM

[Plum]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:50am

Which is exactly why I trust Diebold about as much as a used car salesman. That, and I know some kids at Swarthmore who knew the students who got sued by Diebold for posting their super-secret "our machines our actually not very safe" memos online.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:51am

It COULD happen, Plum. I'm not saying I think there is a huge chance--just a chance. And, I pray people fight this time. I don't care what "mess" it might make. It just proves that the system needs to wait until all votes are counted. Much less a mess than if Bush actually gets to serve.

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:57am

When you think about it, Bush supposedly won Ohio by 130,000 votes. Ohio has 20 electoral votes. If Kerry had won Ohio he would be our next president (regardless of the popular vote). So, had Kerry won either Florida or Ohio (he didn't have to win both) the outcome of the election would have been different. You could say that Bush won the election by 130,000 votes. If, in fact, he earned those votes legitimately.

Updated On: 11/7/04 at 12:57 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:01am

Exactly--the same system that gave him the win last time, is what we go by. Bush currently wins by 130,000. We haven't counted absentee, provisional, or discarded votes (machine error). I'm thinking the math could be there.

[etoile]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:18am

Did anyone hear the end result over the, what was it, two thousand plus Democratic votes on the machines in Philadelphia that occurred BEFORE the polls opened? I never did heard the explaination for that. THE MOST CORRUPT STATE IN THE UNION! I'm telling you, people. It's where the motto "vote early and often" is tattooed on each baby's behind. Where the dead come out to vote. Where absentee ballots are cast for those in nursing homes, whether the residents know it or not. They can give Chicago a few lessons.

But in the end, you just gotta hope it all evens out and the system works.

[Plum]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:20am

But PA ended up going to Kerry. :P

You really think Pennsylvania is more corrupt than Florida, the state that was actually loosening up anti-fraud rules thanks to Governor "I don't have a conflict of interest" Jeb?

[Westopher]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:24am

"two thousand plus Democratic votes on the machines in Philadelphia that occurred BEFORE the polls opened"
Early voting?

[Plum]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:26am

Nope, there was no early voting in PA.

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:40am

"But in the end, you just gotta hope it all evens out and the system works."

If "you just gotta hope it all evens out", the system doesn't work. Every vote should be counted accurately. At least that's the goal we should be working towards. Why can't votes be counted with the same level of accuracy that we count money? Why, in the 21st century, don't we have one standardized national voting process? Why should it vary from state to state? IMO something as important as a presidential election should be handled with a much higher level integrity and accuracy.

Updated On: 11/7/04 at 01:40 AM

[Westopher]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:42am

Agreed. But do you really think that states will give more control to the federal goverment because someone thinks they can't regulate something?

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 9:13am

Even if it turned out EVERY STATE voted for Kerry, he quit, the race is over, the dumb dude won, and nothing can be changed.

[Malena]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 10:39am

I actually doubt that the Republican observers "misread" the counters. Funny how the observers all but disappeared after they fed their information to Drudge and the machines were actually looked at by other people. It's seems just like one more ploy to plant disinformation, without actually checking any facts first.
I've seen how, ever since this admministration got into power, the order of the day is to repeat the message over and over until people believe whatever they are saying is true...and they don't seem to have a high regard for truth, to put it mildly. I cut them no slack...let's see when the rest of the country catches on.
Phila. D.A.: No planted votes; machine counters misread

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:29pm

Actually, Jacob--that isn't true. A concession speech is not legally binding. If Kerry ends up winning Ohio, he will be the next President--it's the electors' placing their votes in December that decides the election finally. It is my thinking that if Kerry thinks he has a chance to win, his speech was smart politics.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/9/04 at 9:33pm

I'm bumping this. Just watched Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC. His show has been covering the possibility that Kerry could still win the election, even if slim at this point.

You should go to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ and click on MSNBC TV, then, Countdown with Olbermann, then Ohio vote fall out. Watch this video!!

MUST SEE TV!

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/10/04 at 7:17am

a few replies to keef.

http://yalefreepress.blogspot.com/2004/11/keith-obermann-wheres-your-tin-foil.html

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/10/04 at 11:49am

You can believe there was no voter fraud this election just like there was none in the last election. None at all. Black Floridians definitely weren't kicked off the voter lists. Uh uh! That's just crazy imagination! Diebold wasn't a huge supporter of Bush! That's more crazy talk!

Regardless, there's the chance that Ohio will go to Kerry. There's the chance that the GOPs will not get away with stealing another election.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/10/04 at 12:07pm

there's also the chance that i'll be looking out the window at any moment to see squadrons of winged pigs on their way overseas to terrify the pork challenged fans of burqas and forced amputations. but i'm not gonna hold my breath a'waitin' on that.