Who Won the 2nd Presidential Debate? — Page 2

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.

#26

re: Who Won the 2nd Presidential Debate?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 11:43am

if she's so anti-abortion, she should be offering to adopt all of these kids born to rape victims and crack addict mothers

"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers

#27

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 2:40pm

i see now why people were talking about this format playing to the president's strengths. the set-up, the lighting, the carpet, the seating in this one were remniscent of one thing: a revival meeting. george bush last night was the evangelist-in-chief.

i mean that in a good way. think about how many people there are out there who watch televangelists and who are comfortable with that medium. it's safe, it's what they know and it's what touches that spot inside them that they want stroked. it's a primal spot, it's why humans seek myths to justify their existence: to feel safe. george gave that to a whole lotta people tonight. not just the ones who fill the revival halls and revere falwell and swaggart and the othr miscreants, but those folk who are looking for something in their commander in chief with which they can identify. george gave them something familiar and kerry gave them who and what he is: a decent legislator and debator who's not particularly inspiring.

the difference in style was remarkable. what some people see as angry shouting, i saw as soaring fire and brimstone. these ideas are gonna go over like a lead ballon here, i know. and that's a topic for another thread, but have you ever watched a revival meeting lately, the ones they show early on sunday morning on public access channels? that was it last night and bush came across as a preacher and kerry came across as wanting. hell, the only thing missing in that place was an organ and a choir, the "amen" corner and a few "hallelujahs."

this is just one man's opinion. george played that crowd and played off them. i read the comments last night and today and wondered if i was watching the same debate as some folks. i saw a clear victory for bush, especially with the lowered expectations (thanks margo i still have it in my head) from the first debate. if he comes out and does this well in #3 it won't be close. like i said, that's just what i saw.

r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective

#28

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 3:44pm

The format for #3 is exactly the same as #1.

"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"

#29

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:28pm

"These ultra-Republicans just want live babies so they can grow up to become dead soldiers."

That is seriosuly one of the most disgusting, untrue, offensive statements i've ever read on here. THIS is why I can't bring myself to vote for Democrats.

For the record, Bush never said "don't vote for him" but both me nwere equally nasty. Bush CELARLY talked about the deficit, why do you still believe he doesn't know what he's talking about!?

When Kerry looked into the camera and said "I will not raise taxes," did you believe him for one second!? I didn't. Kerry gave NO specific plans and doesn't have a clue how to bring about all these wonderful promises he's making. Wake up and smell the coffee, people.

#30

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:33pm

"THIS is why I can't bring myself to vote for Democrats."

really? this is the reason??? the ONE reason you can't vote for democrats??? this is the only deciding issue for you???

#31

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:35pm

you can't bring yourself to vote Democrat because I posted a George Carlin quote from several years ago?

"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers

#32

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:38pm

That poor little chica would never vote for a democrat because she doesn't know squat about politics and it sounds like the right thing for a republican to say.

I would vote for a republican president if the democratic nominee was doing the same thing this inbred hillbilly in the white house is doing now.

"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."

#33

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:38pm

Bush CLEARLY talked about the deficit??? Really? What did he say? No really. What exactly did he say?

And yes... I did believe Kerry when he looked into the camera and said that he won't raise taxes FOR ANYONE EARNING LESS THAN $200,000.00 PER YEAR.

There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered. - Nelson Mandela

Updated On: 10/9/04 at 04:38 PM

#34

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:41pm

"That poor little chica would never vote for a democrat because she doesn't know squat about politics"

oh ok then! i coulda sworn I had something crazy in my ear, but it's all good now.

"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers

#35

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:42pm

yes, of course, because when someone has different view,s that CLEARLY means they know nothing about politics and are idiots. For crying out loud, it's like trying to get throug hto a brick wall with you people. Bush could cure cancer and AIDS ,allow gay marriage, leave us with the cleanest air and water we've ever had ,and you'd STILL despise him.
For people who don't like being called "pansys", you sure don't have any problems calling other people names like "inbred hillbilly". I am so over trying to discuss anything on this board.

And if you believed Kerry won't raise taxes for the middle class, you're even more delusional than people accuse me of being.

#36

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:44pm

go to JohnKerry.com, and youll see the specifics of the plan, Chica. He hired independent people to come in and balance his budget.

Compare that to Bush who had the greatest turn around from surplus to defecit not just in the history of America, but in the history of nation-states. This is UN-FRICKIN-BELIEVABLE. If you want your money protected, i'd suggest Kerry. If you want rich people to get tax cuts while the poor people's money is misspent, vote Bush.

"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown

#37

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:47pm

"Bush could cure cancer and AIDS ,allow gay marriage, leave us with the cleanest air and water we've ever had ,and you'd STILL despise him"

because he'd find a way to only make these things available to the richest 1%

"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers

#38

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 4:48pm

Do you like the direction in which the country is headed?

Do you believe that we're better off today than we were four years ago?

If so, then vote for Bush.

But IMO, four more years of Bush and you won't even recognize this country.

There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered. - Nelson Mandela

#39

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 5:01pm

"Bush could cure cancer and AIDS ,allow gay marriage, leave us with the cleanest air and water we've ever had ,and you'd STILL despise him"

If Bush even comes out with one empathetic word about gay and lesbian couples I'll vote for him.

If Bush actually tries to support clean air initiatives over corporate interests, I'll vote for him.

If Bush actually puts all the resources needed to do an adequate job in treating AIDS in the world, I'll vote for him.

But he won't.

I'm not expecting anything from this low life president and his administration of liars. He's shown how to screw up a country in 4 years, it's time for a change. Or do you want more of the same?

#40

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 5:04pm

Mimichica... why are you so skeptical about Kerry not raising taxes? Are you remembering a promise that Daddy Bush made, and then broke, a while back??? Is this what accounts for your cynicism?

PROMISE NOT TO RAISE TAXES: At the Republican convention in 1988, during his speech to accept the party's presidential nomination, Mr. Bush said, "My opponent won't rule out raising taxes, but I will. And Congress will push me to raise taxes, and I'll say no, and they'll push, and I'll say no, and they'll push again. And I'll say to them: Read my lips. No new taxes."

There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered. - Nelson Mandela

#41

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 7:17pm

I was talking to friend today about how freshly aware we are that Bush moves farther to the right every single day. Think how easily he could secure a ten point lead, by moving a mere inch on an issue, without compromising his own "values."

If he had bothered -- or had the moral courage -- to offer one bread crumb to gays, to name but one issue -- if he'd said "I strongly believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman. And yet, I know Americans are loving tolerent people, who want their children raised in a safe, tolerent world. Deep down, true Americans are like V. P. Cheney--many of them have gay children. Children who came into the world the way they are, just as some have green eyes, some brown. My fellow Americans -- hug those precious children, tell them you love and respect them as you always have. That is what matters most. Let us put aside our differences on this issue, because that parental bond is priceless, at the end of the daymore important than who marries whom, and what that union is called..."

But no, he didn't do that. Because that would require that our first Fundamentalist President behave in a truly unifying, compassionate way ... like ... like ... oh, what's the word I'm looking for? ... a Christian, maybe?

"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

Updated On: 10/9/04 at 07:17 PM

#42

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 10:08pm

auggie in another presidential cycle, that sort of admission by the president might win him votes, but were he to do so this year he'd lose the election in a landslide as his base would abandon him and the advantage he would gain would be miniscule at best. you have to accept the reality of the political situation, auggie. were he to do that he would gain nothing from the undecideds because it would be played as the ultimate flip flop, he'd be engaging (however correct it might or might not be morally) in exactly what he's built as his case againts john kerry. he'd be allowing politics to dictate policy, tossing aside his convictions for a few points in a poll. the great unwashed right that stayed home in 2000 but who have been engaged so far by this campaign that's feinted right at very opportunity would turn off their tv sets and sit on their hands in a petulant show of disapproval. and i doubt that anyone, even the log cabin kids and andrew sullivan would hop on his bandwagon as everyone would say that it's craven desperation politics and given his track record that there's no reason to believe this president when he's lied about everything else (i don't believe he lied, but i'm like one of three in the country). he'd lose and lose big. it's not pretty, but it's reality.

#43

re: who won?

Posted: 10/9/04 at 10:26pm

Big difference between some of those numbers.

"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611

#44

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 12:41am

"auggie in another presidential cycle, that sort of admission by the president might win him votes, but were he to do so this year he'd lose the election in a landslide as his base would abandon him and the advantage he would gain would be miniscule at best."

I think you are right, paplovesmambo. But unlike you, I suppose, I sure as hell don't want to be part of a group of people who would conduct themselves in such a way. This "base" you are refering to, sadly, is a very large part of our country. The ones who are so afraid of change, that this President actually appeals to them. He appeals to their ignorance, and he... well, his staff at least realizes that an appeal to ignorance is the way to win this election, and they seem to have concluded that aren't above this.

Now I'm not nieve enough to think that Democrats, more specifically Kerry, aren't above this either, but I have not seen anywhere near this blatent disregaurd for decency in his campaign, nor do I think I would see it in the next four years if he is elected.

I know that there are those, yourself included, who are smart enough to not be manipulated by the "compassionate conservative" bull**** that he keeps spewing, and who have their own, meticulously formulated political beliefs that account for your vote. But I cannot put myself in a group of people that are attracted to a politician because he stands up against a group of his countrymen who only want equal rights.

Updated On: 10/10/04 at 12:41 AM

#45

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 2:06pm

Actually, Papa, you misread my take on the real George W. Bush. I assumed his strategy was the polar opposite of what you opined. I honestly thought that deep inside, he believes that gay people shouldn't be 2nd class citizens, and that parents should embrace gay children with tolerance. I thought his (constitution amending) stance was the measured bit of political strategy. It intrigues me that you read my post and assumed he deep-down feels that gays ARE morally inferior. If that's the case, the news about this President's values and convictions is even more depressing, not less so.

"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

#46

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 2:42pm

auggie, i think we're passing like ships in the night. i meant that because he's taken the stance that he's against gay marriage in a big way to play to his base, that now he must maintain that stance, at least through the election, lest he lose any gains that he made by taking such a strident position. regardless of his political feelings, the "convictions" i was speaking to were political, not personal. he made a choice to play to the right with the amendment. to come out now and say, "yeah, well, i don't really feel that way" regardless of whether he does or not in his heart, would be a political disaster. i didn't think that i made the case the he actually felt that gays were morally inferior. that was surely not my intention. i was speaking purely about the political decisions that have been made.

#47

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 4:21pm

Do you think that he feels gays are morally inferior, papa? It certainly wouldn't be that far-fetched would it? I usually don't think it's right to assume things about celebrities or politicians, but I'd say that in this case, most evidence points in that direction.

#48

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 7:24pm

I now get what you're saying, Papa.

What disturbs me about this whole issue -- and look for it to surface bigtime on Wednesday, Domestic Night -- is the way it's been used by The Great Uniter to divide. The Democratic Party has no "gay agenda" other than to espouse tolerance and equality. The platform position among Dems is 100% Dick Cheney's: gay marriage is a states' rights issues. But in the midst of escalating bloodshed in Iraq (oh yeah, and some gay marriages in MA and CA--what percentage of gay people are represented by those marriages? Sayless than 1%?), Bush interrupted morning television to seek a constitutional amendment. Papa, you may disagree, but even THEN he could've played both sides to his moral, "compassionate" advantage -- sought the amendment AND asked for tolerance, per my post above. Would "Christians" -- these followers of Jesus Christ -- really turn on him, simply for asking them to love their children?!

As I've posted here in may threads, I've personally worked in the area of teen suicide. 7 out of 7 teen suicides are sexual orientation-related. Gay teens are literally turned out into the streets by parents once they come out. All of this in the face of a body of evidence that nails a crtical truth: gay people come to the planet gay. So for a sitting president to take a stand on gay marriage -- WITHOUT CALLING FOR A PLEA FOR TOLERANCE AND THAT NEW REPUBLICAN WORD, 'COMPASSION' -- is being part of the problem, not the solution.

"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

Updated On: 10/10/04 at 07:24 PM

#49

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 7:38pm

I agree auggie.

"Would "Christians" -- these followers of Jesus Christ -- really turn on him, simply for asking them to love their children?!"

That's just the thing, they absolutly would. And before anyone says that that is stereotypical, let's just look at the facts; more Americans in this country are anti-gay marriage than pro. Most Americans are Christian, and most Christians are apposed to homosexuality as a whole because the Bible says that is is wrong. This is Bush's base. THIS is the ignorance to which he appeals. THIS is how he plans on winning the election, and THAT is why I cannot give a second thought to supporting him.

#50

re: who won?

Posted: 10/10/04 at 7:52pm

Let me be disclose my own reality: I'm a church going (for lack of a better term:) neo-Christian myself. I attended regularly in NYC on/off for 15 years,and then regularly when I became a parent. A progressive, humane, loving congregation, but still the C word -- a church. Now I live in NJ, and I've found the equiv. We have lesbian couples with kids, etc.

But I'm not the cliche, the atheist left-wing queer out to destroy the "values" espoused by Jesus. No, on the contrary, I refuse to let intolerent people, or Mel Gibson, own Jesus. Were he walking the globe today, I doubt he'd find this loveless behavior a true reflection of his life, philosophy and sacrifice. Amen.

"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

← Back to Message Board

View all Videos

Tickets From $59

Tickets From $70

Tickets From $59

Tickets From $101