Who is the bigger war criminal: Hussein or Bush?

[Cruel_Sandwich]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:37pm

I've been pondering this all day...

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:41pm

"I've been pondering this all day..."

If you've been pondering this all day, then you need to either get out and get a job or take the pills that the nice lady in the white uniform gives you.

[Carl Magnum]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:48pm

Lets just put it this way, they should both be on trial for crimes against humanity.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:48pm

Right.
When W. orders the chemical execution of Cleveland, I will think this through. Atrocities and war to stop atrocities should not even be in the same thought process. Regardless of how you feel about the man and the war, making a parallel between our president and a man who knowingly and intentionally killed children is obnoxious.

[Carl Magnum]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:50pm

Although he is guilty of trying to kill off the employees and talent for Al Jazerra(sp?).

[ckeaton]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:51pm

I'm not sure about that, but I will say that attacking the media department of Al Qaeda sounds like an OK deal.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:51pm

Hardly true, ckeaton. I think the problem is that you don't see the humanity of Hussein. You have decided he is such an "other", that he is inhuman. That just leads to not understanding the nature of evil. Evil isn't what people are, it is the small choices we make along the road.

Hussein didn't kill people because he likes killing people, or gets off on it -- he did it because he has a relgious and political motivation for doing so -- very much like our Bush.

The evil is not the motive, it is the choice to use that motive to do the evil of murder.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:56pm

The Hussein's had torture chambers where they would violate the wives and daughters of their political enemies with daggers and other nasty sharp and big things. They used rape and murder as a means of inspiring fear. They had racks and fingernail extractors that they used on people, simply for not following in lock-step.

I'll take an administration that uses a color scale and the media to do that, over bloody abuse anyday.

Hussein and his children were hardly human.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:10pm

I guess I don't buy into the inhumanity of anyone.

I'm sure those whose houses were bombed because Bush thought they had terrorists there would tend to agree with you, though.

[WindyCityActor]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:18pm

This is the type of either/or, black or white, you are either "for us or against us" question that has divided the nation.

I would say that Hussein is the bigger war criminal, but Bush's bed sheets aren't the cleanest by far.

Updated On: 12/9/05 at 01:18 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:26pm

"That just leads to not understanding the nature of evil. Evil isn't what people are, it is the small choices we make along the road."

It is both. When a person tends to make the same choices, small or large, over a long period of time, and those choices make up a majority of their life and how they are viewed, then those choices often end up defining the individual. Evil is actually subjective. One man's Satan is another man's Savior.

"I guess I don't buy into the inhumanity of anyone."

Why not? Because you don't want to believe in it or because you truly don't believe it exists? To not see the inhumanity in the acts Hussein committed is to ignore the victims of his reign. To pretend they didn't even exist. Rape, torture and murder for no reason other than to instill fear and control IS inhumane, whether it be Hussein, Hitler, Min, Mussolini or Bush. But as for who has committed the most of these crimes between the two, it is most definitely Hussein. As far as I know, Bush has neither raped many women nor ordered them to be kidnapped so they could be raped by his friends. I also don't believe Bush tortured the US Olympic soccer team or had his family murdered.

Perhaps you need to witness inhumanity firsthand in order to "buy into it". I sure hope it does not happen to you or your loved ones, but I know from personal experience that it exists. It must be nice to live in your world.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:35pm

I can't believe you all took bait from Cruel_Sandwich.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:44pm

I don't even really think this is a cogent question.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 4:14pm

Matt, sadly for me, I have seen far too much atrocity. The thing it has revealed to me is that calling someone "inhumane" doesn't make us more human, it makes is less human. I assume you wouldn't presume I think rape is a good thing, nor would you presume that I think we should let Sadaam go free. I think what he did was wrong, but i don't think that makes him a dog, I think it makes him in desperate need of redemption (and not the kind from TBN). Which just reminds me of the ways I am in need of redemption. So, perhaps when youa re saying that he is inhumane, what you really mean is that he triggers your inhumanity to yourself.

And, even if we make a choice over and over, it does not make us who we are (despite what Oprah may tell you). Choosing something over and over does not change the nature of our hearts, it changes the potential we see in ourselves for redemption. Which has nothing to do with what we are, and more to do with what we see.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 4:31pm

Do you believe everybody is worthy of redemption no matter what he or she has done?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 4:49pm

touchme - That's a really nifty alternate view, but it is not any more valid than what I said. It is just different. I see no inhumanity in myself when I think someone is behaving inhumanely. I do not view all negativity in the world as a part of me and blah blah blah. As a matter of fact, I see more humanity in myself for having the ability to recognize the inhumanity in someone with the inhumane capacity of Hussein. Being inhumane does not mean Hussein is a dog, it means that he is behaving with no sense of guilt or moral value, which is part of what separates humans from animals. Cats will torture and play with their prey for the mere fun of it before they finally kill it. And they may not even kill it for food. Just entertainment. That is inhumane and it is not unlike what Hussein has done with many Iraqi men and women.

"Choosing something over and over does not change the nature of our hearts, it changes the potential we see in ourselves for redemption."

Choosing the same thing over and over changes pretty much nothing and it most definitely contributes to how others perceive you, which is how a person gets defined. Seldomly, does one define himself. He is defined by others through his actions and words, which are the direct result of his choices. Potential is imaginary and cannot be measured. No matter what a person chooses, he could always not be reaching their potential because there is no real limit to imaginary standards. Thus, potential has no place in who a person is, or how they are perceived. And as for the nature of Hussein's heart, I find it difficult to look at his choices and not find inhumane actions and evil. And certainly no sign of seeking redemption, of which I feel he is quite undeserving.

[ajayspak2]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:00pm

C Keaton

"making a parallel between our president and a man who knowingly and intentionally killed children is obnoxious. "

If you don't think that Bush has "knowingly" and "intentionally" killed children is the most naive thing I have ever heard, sounds like you havent read a paper or watched the news in years. Sorry read the next post latter:

"I'm not sure about that, but I will say that attacking the media department of Al Qaeda sounds like an OK deal."

That is purely sick and twisted, you obviously have NO clue as to the our own constitution and obviously know nothing about WAR. Basically you sound like a teenage airhead

Updated On: 12/9/05 at 10:00 PM

[justthefacts2]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:10pm

For me, the question isn't about Hussein. I am mystified by the attitude of some towards the Iraqi people. I want to ask - why was it okay for them to be tortured? Why didn't that have to stop? What moral argument outweighs torture?

[jasonf]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:13pm

"I'll take an administration that uses a color scale and the media to do that, over bloody abuse anyday."

While I am CERTAINLY not in the camp that's going to accuse Bush of being a war-criminal on the level of Hussein, I am far from a supporter of his either. This comment, though, is EXACTLY what scares the hell out of me from Bush's supporters. This is saying, "no, he's not as bad as Hussein, but we can still excuse everything he does." Bush's slate is far from clean, but no, he's not as bad as Hussein. This is a ridiculous discussion.

[Plum]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:50pm

That question's a goddamn insult to anyone who had to deal with the consequences of Hussein's actions.

I'm going to bed before I say things I regret.

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 3:27am

Plum - I agree.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 10:51am

While I am no fan of Bush, I would never compare his actions to those of Hussein.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 10:53am

I would say Bush, as of the two he's the only one in a declared war....wait, was it ever declared? While Hussein has commited atrocities of the type not seen since Hitler, the question related to war crimes, not atrocities within ones own borders.

I think both should be put in a room.....given no food, and we wait and see who eats who first

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 11:00am

"If you don't think that Bush has "knowingly" and "intentionally" killed children is the most naive thing I have ever heard"


When, exactly, has Bush created turture chambers and killed children? Come on, this is ridiculous, and this whole thread is insane and making me angry. Bush is by no means an angel, but he is NOT a murderer.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 11:04am

oh please....tell that to the thousands of US troops he's sent to their deaths.....all based on lies......
He has murdered American troops....he has murdered Iraqui children and civilians....

Tell that to the masses who died waiting in New Orleans after Katrina, when his government sat on its collective ass (the buck DOES stop with him)

The man is a monster, he makes Nixon look like a Prince

Let us know when the shuttle lands, Everything

Updated On: 12/10/05 at 11:04 AM