Why Are Public Schools So Bad At Hiring Good Instructors?- Page 2

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 2:56pm

*grumble, grumble* kitten fight...

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 2:57pm

It's not as much fun without the mud, papa.

[nmartin]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 3:00pm

"Teachers do have to student teach for a semester and then get evaluated by one of their college professors. "

Not true everywhere. There are alternative routes to certification in some states that will allow you to skip student teaching.

And for all you people who have taught less than five years, post your opinions again once you reach that milestone.

[KelRel]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 3:51pm

SweetQ, I'm not saying that you aren't prepared in any way, but compared to the way you feel as you finish student teaching and cross that stage with your diploma and the way that you feel when those students walk into the classroom on the first day of school you aren't really prepared. You have the basics and the tools you need to figure it out, but you aren't equipped with every tool that you need. At least that is the way that I see it. If your university has made such a well planned teacher ed program that you truly are prepared for everything that will come up the first year then I am jealous, but I seriously doubt it.

My first year was insane. There were ups and downs, tears, struggles, wonderful "A-ha!" moments, utter exhaustion, exhilaration, moments of cluelessness, unexpected composure and wisdom, oh yeah and a pregnancy to boot. I'll tell you this much, no teacher ed program prepares you for a student asking if they can come and be present at the delivery of your child or a student asking you if they went on your belly or in your ... when you had an ultrasound.

Back to the original topic though. I have had resumes and applications out since May and I just this past few weeks got interviews and in the end a job offer. It is so hard to find a teaching job in this area sometimes, yet you hear about and work with some teachers who shouldn't be in the classroom at all. Its nuts.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 3:57pm

The first few years are definitely a challenge. However once I had my lesson plans, activites, projects and such set up it was not bad at all. Just had to tweak them every year.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 4:09pm

Yes...and that willingness to tweak, reavaluate, incorporate new information and techniques is what will make you a good teacher.
One of my biggest pet peeves is that many good teachers aren't able to be the best teachers they could be because of district red tape. Elliot Eisner, an educational philospher, describes a good teacher as one who understands "the art of teaching". These teachers know what their students need, and they are able to provide it to them. And this might not be in the same way. But, they are given the freedom to determine what skills and knowledge their students need.

Most districts and classrooms are now so driven by scoring high grades on standardized tests, that we don't see much of "the art of teaching". There are certain districts that even have a basic "script" for you to follow as you go through the day. Even in my district, teachers get crazy if they aren't all on the same chapter of the text at the right time in the year. Watch any of the movies out there where they show "outstanding teachers": Freedom Writers, Mr. Holland's Opus, Music of the Heart, even The Miracle Worker. All of these teachers took risks and departed from the "traditional curriculum". I'm still in shock that Erin Gruewell, of Freedom Writers, (who is a real teacher) wasn't fired after her first year of teaching.

And that was the only thing that truly disturbed me in the article, that a "good teacher" is one who causes standardized test grades to rise. Yes, students who are enthused about education will probably do better on their tests, but are these students truly learning, or are they just spitting back the answers they need. A good teacher will create good learners, not just good test takers.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 4:15pm

Very true. Standardized testing is taking up way too much time (Preparing for it, I mean) that could be used teaching other things.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 4:22pm

I'm still in shock that Erin Gruewell, of Freedom Writers, (who is a real teacher) wasn't fired after her first year of teaching.

No, but ironically, many of the teachers that have used her book in their classes have been.

[KelRel]

Posted: 7/11/08 at 5:00pm

There was a teacher in a neighboring school district that was "released from her contract" aka fired for using her book (Erin Gruewell) even though she got parental consent.

[cturtle]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 3:21pm

why did everyone have to remind me that school starts back in just three weeks?!

[StockardFan]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 5:09pm

Three weeks?

It doesn't start here til after Labor Day!

[defyinggravity42694]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 6:37pm

My district has amazing instructors!

[Jess1483]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 7:47pm

I still haven't finished this school year yet (4 more days w/my kids!) So much for "well, at least you still have summers off!"

[george95]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 8:20pm

I did the alternate route. I graduated with a BA in English, then had my graduate to degree in teaching. At Seton Hall Univ. in South Orange, NJ, there's a program where they place you in urban/needy/ghetto Catholic schools for 2 years while you earn your degree. That's what I did. When you finish, you have your certification (well, certificate of eligibility) and a master's.

The first year was TERRIBLE. As terrible as a first year could possibly be. I tried using all the "respect the students and they'll respect you" stuff I was hearing from people and the students just destroyed me. It was a total utter complete disaster. If I was not committed to a two year graduate program, I would have never gone back for a 2nd year. But, now I'm about to start my 8th year, and I'm the English Dept Chair and the senior class moderator, and I'm confident and in control in the classroom.

But it does take time. No matter how much training you get, the first time that a students says "yo don't talk that way to me homie" when you tell him to sit down, it will be pretty tough to handle without making either you or the kid throwing down in the classroom. Or dealing with a parent who shifts the blame to you for homework not being done. Or a kid who appears to be above the rules in the school. Or kids who come to class high. Or when that incredible, well-researched lesson plan that you got at that teacher conference from that nationally renowned scholar bombs in your class. As far as I've come, I dont see myself doing this forever.

[Jess1483]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 8:31pm

I'm also an alt-cert person. As a Teach For America teacher, I had 5 weeks of training and a test that you'd actually have to be 4 to fail, before being handed a classroom. The first year was incredibly difficult, but I really feel like this year I've learned a lot, I've done some re-structuring, and I'm really excited for next year. That said, I'm not sure that there is a right way to train teachers. I see incredible value in some teacher's ed departments, but I don't think anything other than teaching really prepares you to teach.
I'm also conflicted because I think experience can do an incredible amount for a teacher--I think it's the reason some great teachers are really great. Then, of course, you run into the problem with teachers who have been in the classroom for so long they are either burned out, uninterested, or never were all that good to begin with. So I don't know what the best approach is, but I do know that in this country, we need to develop a system that makes teaching a career that is appreciated and where success is rewarded (my principal seems far more interested in whether or not my students stay in my classroom than whether they learn anything.) I think merit pay is an interesting thing to explore, although I'm not well-researched in it and so I'm not sure how it should be set up.
Going into this year, my future in education was truly up in the air. While I am still very committed to the movement, there is little that motivates me to stay in the career (externally.) I've watched some amazing teachers at my school decide to leave because of the bureaucracy they are faced with and the very real struggle with the administration between what does educate students and what appears to. It seems to me that administrators and teachers often have different agendas (obviously a generalization and not true in all cases), which makes working in a school an incredible struggle.

[george95]

Posted: 7/12/08 at 8:35pm

yeah my alt route was like Teach for America only with the master's degree as well. I thought it worked well because as we studied theories and teaching methods at the university on the weekends, we would then have to implement those methods in our classrooms, and videotape it for our professors.

It also helps having a mentor and being observed. At my first observation, the guy told me that I said for the whole period, every 3rd word I said was either "like" or "ok". I would have never noticed that.

If merit pay is tied to standardized test scores, then no way because there's a million ways to fake that.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 12:22pm

I was certified through the ACE program at the University of Notre Dame, which is the program that the one at Seton Hall (and other colleges) is based on.

I found it to be worthwhile...the first summer was intense, but there was plenty of practical training.

Each of the two years, I was observed four times by ND faculty, who paid "site visits" to our school. My principal was a pain in the you know what, and only visited my classroom once each year. I had a great mentor teacher, though, who taught me more than anyone else ever did.

After I was finished, I had a choice of jobs, because most of the schools I interviewed at were very impressed by the program and the quality of instruction I received.

I do think they're worth it (aside from getting my master's degree for FREE), and a better way to prepare yourself for the classroom than the traditional student teaching, because everything was a lot more practical.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 12:23pm

George, my first year I sent so many referrals in that the principal was ready to scream. I also gave detention out like crazy. Then I realized a) sending in all those referrals made me look to the administration like I didn't know what I was doing. and b) having all these bad kids in detention every day was forcing me to spend more time with them. Ugh.

After a while I learned how to let certain things roll off my back and it got alot better.

I think all of us teachers would say that their first year was horrid!

[Jess1483]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 3:50pm

You get your masters with TFA if you want to...paid for by Americorps.

I'm hoping everyone who says it gets better after the first year is right

One of my goals for next year is to really cut down on referrals. On the other hand, when a kid throws a box of scissors across the classroom...well, there are times they just have to leave.

[george95]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 7:50pm

TFA offers master's degre program paid for by AmeriCorps??? Wowwww when did this start? What schools are involved? AmeriCorps really pays everything or is it some kind of loan? And do you still get the Ed award on top of it? I spent 3 years in AmeriCorps, I thought I was an expert : )

And as for sending kids to the office, yeah that dramatically drops after the first two years I would say. Its all about setting clear ground rules ahead of time, and about diffusing the situation, and not forcing the kid into a tit-for-tat match with you. Seton Hall was great at teaching us to use humor to diffuse tense situations and create a more discipline environment.

[StockardFan]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 7:53pm

Consistancy is the key as well. If you make a rule, you have to follow through every time.

[Jess1483]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 7:57pm

It depends entirely on your region. For me, I paid part of my first year of grad school and the education grant paid the other half. Then, if I continue my second year w/my school, the grant covers the whole thing. If not, then I get the award and can use it for some other ed thing (which you know). I think there are probably some regions where you can't get the masters, it depends on the University partner.

[george95]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 8:02pm

Wowww that's cool. Yeah I was very lucky--I finished my MA in 2003, and it was completely totally free. In fact, I even sent in my AmeriCorps Ed award (from doing City Year), and they mailed it back to me as a check!! Which isn't supposed to technically happen, but anyway....

I had to go back and give a little talk to the new group of students in the program last fall, and I couldn't believe them talking about paying 15,000 in tuition (which is still a good deal-two years in the grad school there costs about 55,000) But I paid zip zero nothing. While I was studying, they would mail these tuition bills to my parent's house, and asking for 12,000, 16,000, 18,000 bucks. But the university said to just throw them away. And sure enough I got my diploma.

I looove AmeriCorps! : )

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 8:53pm

Consistancy is the key as well. If you make a rule, you have to follow through every time.

Bingo, bingo, bingo. How many teachers do you see who write up a nice list of class rules, post them, explain them the first day, then never refer to them ever again?

Following through, and being extremely strict from day one is key. One of my rules is don't get out of your seat without permission. Well, it never fails, every year, some poor soul gets out of their seat to get a tissue or sharpen their pencil without asking, and I have to put their name up on the board (I have a tiered consequence system with names and checks). They give me dirty looks, and I'm sure they curse me out at lunch, but it sets the tone from the getgo. By the end of the second week, the students should be clear on your rules and expectations. They know where you stand, and have also learned exactly which rules they can get away with breaking.

[george95]

Posted: 7/13/08 at 10:45pm

When I used to write student's names on the board like that during my first couple years, they would erase them when I wasn't looking. Or some of the more bold ones would just say "don't be writin' my name on the board" and go up and erase it.

But you guys are definitely right when it comes to being strict from day one. A lot of the older teachers at my school always say "don't smile til after Christmas". A little extreme, but the right idea. Nowadays I don't ease up on the kids til they are convinced that I am evil incarnate.