harry reid and howard dean have a secret plan to end the primary battle

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 10:13pm

question: do you still think the democratic race can be resolved before the convention?
reid: easy.
q: how is that?
reid: it will be done.
q: it just will?
reid: yep.
q: magically?
reid: no, it will be done. i had a conversation with governor dean (democratic national committee chairman howard dean) today. things are being done


i love it when they channel nixon

[tazber]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 10:23pm

And Al Gore gets the nom.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 11:21pm

And PalJoey gets his dream come true.

[DG]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 11:37pm

A lot of people I talk to share the opinion expressed in this recent article (full article linked below.) Here's a snippet:

"The fact that Hillary is still fighting gives us a big clue that this is not about the voice of the people at all. It’s about raw power and the manipulation of a system that is already loaded, unfair, and byzantine to try to reach a desired outcome, will of the people be damned. The Clinton’s campaign spin – that Obama can only win in “boutique” states, that caucuses don’t really count, that he only appeals to “latte liberals,” not “real” Democrats and “real” American voters – ignores the hard reality of the numbers, which is that she is behind in this contest by any objective measure and is more than likely to remain so to the end.

Her suggestion that some votes are more “real” than others follows an inglorious tradition in this country of trying to exclude certain groups from participating in the political process at all – blacks, newly naturalized immigrants, Catholics, factory workers, reformist intellectuals, and so on. The Clinton campaign even appears to have embraced the overtly racist aspect of this tradition, distancing itself only hesitantly from Geraldine Ferraro’s outrageous remarks about Obama’s candidacy and apparently calculating that, in Pennsylvania at least, awakening the racist sensibilities of all those blue collar former Reagan Democrats might have political mileage.

Granted, the crisis in the Democratic Party is not just about Hillary’s overweening ambition and distasteful campaign tactics. The party has been trying for decades to rig the primary process in such a way as to insulate itself from unpleasant surprises, and now it is receiving the biggest conceivable karmic kick up the rear end."

Full article link.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 11:52pm

That's all twaddle. I don't care how many people you talk to share it, it's just hyperventilating.

Hillary's ambition is no more or less "overweening" (what a silly word) than Barack's...or McCain's...or Bush's or that of any other presidential candidate.

Why don't they say that Obama's ambition is so "overweening" that he is willing to disenfranchise two entire states?

Huh?

Those meaningless memes of Hillary following the "inglorious traditions" of slavery and racism and anti-Catholic bigotry, that she is the only "ambitious" politician EVER are pure horseSH*T.

Updated On: 3/26/08 at 11:52 PM

[DG]

Posted: 3/25/08 at 11:56pm

This type of dialogue really brings out the best in you, PJ. I can't understand why more aren't willing to participate.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:02am

Thanks, DG!

Posted: 3/26/08 at 1:17am

Obama is NOT trying to disenfranchise two states - that is a pure Clinton talking point (could have been written by Carl Rove).

The local parties and state governments of those states disenfranchised themselves by not obeying the party rules for the primary process. Obama has stated clearly that he wishes for there to be a fair resolution to this situation, and you can not blame his campaign for trying to ensure a fair process, especially when he obeyed the rules (and wasn't even on the ballet in one state) while the Clinton machine tries to rig them.

This situation is a mess, but I have real buyer's remorse for my early Clinton support. I've seen some sell out ideals for power, but I've never seen someone so nakedly sell out their own party - well not since Lieberman. Should she win the nomination, I'd be surprised if she got any support from the black community. I really don't know if I could vote for her. See link.
Clintons Have Crossed the Final Line (Daily Kos)

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 1:26am

Oh it's not just a talking point. You can question Hillary's sincerity in wanting the vote, of course. But the people of those states who did NOT have a say in how this went down are L I V I D. It has become crystal clear that it is in the interest of all Democrats to have revotes in those two states. Barack SAID he was ok with a revote but HE is the reason nothing has come about. He had the opportunity to help bring about a fair decision--and he did not.

I am so ****ing sick of all this fighting and side taking and general BS. I hope Gore becomes the nominee. It serves all involved right.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 6:47am

Oh please, all this Cinton negativity is really hypocritical.
I'm not disagreeing with any of it, but to imply that Obama is somehow a more upstanding candidate is just false.

They both want to win and they both play dirty.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 10:42am

taz, bammy is the messiah and you will learn that eventually in the bammian re-education camps, once the revolution begins you butt munching infidel!

i like the idea that howard dean fancies himself able to end this all. you go howlin' howie. she just recently expressed her determination to be in this until at least june 4th, montana.

given the way things are now, good luck getting her to drop out before the convention.

bammy has already said he won't be a veep candidate. he can't. his wife has clearly satted that he is the only one who can save our souls.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 10:49am

"he is the only one who can save our souls."

Jewel must be delighted that someone finally answered her question.

Posted: 3/26/08 at 11:33am

Ted Kenendy! He's our man! If he can't do it No one can!

He's the man to drive us over that bridge to the 21st century!

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 11:43am

"Obama is NOT trying to disenfranchise two states - that is a pure Clinton talking point (could have been written by Carl Rove)."

No - both campaigns had to agree on how the revotes would work - and by his demands that could NEVER BE MET he effectively stopped any chance of it happening. Obama claimed one thing while , through his lawyers, doing another. I'm really beginning to hate that passive/aggressive twit.

[TheHumanTorch]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 11:52am

what about the fact that numerous Clinton supporters tried to buy a revote in Michigan? Jon Corzine and other Clintonites trying to buy the state for Clinton may not be the only reason for Michigan not getting a revote, but it was the most recent reason...

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:22pm

COUGHbull****COUGH

marc you realize that the state legislature was the one that had to make the decision on the revote right? A state legislature that NEITHER hillary nor obama are a part of. So it is simply a Rovian talking point being employed by Hillary.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:32pm

Because Obama set up conditions that could never be met (More so in Michigan, but also in Florida).

Clinton obviously wanted the two states to revote bacause they could have changed Obamas lead in the delegate vote as well as the popular vote. Obama, knowing this, did everything in his power to make sure they wouldn't revote - and he won. All the while he pretended he wanted the two states to vote again. So much for a new style of politics.

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:38pm

The truth is- if they revote they will split the votes (and delegates) very closely to 50/50- as they have in just about every primary.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:53pm

I disagree - both of the states were favored largely for Hillary.

And to make a comment about the original title of the thread - I don't think Reid or Dean have the ability to form a workable plan about anything. They are both incompetent. Updated On: 3/26/08 at 12:53 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 12:56pm

It's not a "Rovian talking point"--that's another silly meme.

It's a fact that Obama's lawyers did everything they could to PREVENT revotes from taking place in either state.

Obama supporters are in denial that their candidate can do anything Machiavellian.

HELLO? He's a politician too.

Posted: 3/26/08 at 1:09pm

So what would be the results of a revote? Hilary wins 55-45? How many delegates would she pick up?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 1:19pm

We'll never know now, will we?

We would have, had Barack's lawyers allowed every vote to be counted.

Now neither Hillary or Barack has the 2,024 delegates.

There can be no uncontested delegate lead, no uncontested popular vote lead and no candidate without a brokered convention.

Updated On: 3/26/08 at 01:19 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 2:18pm

NO one was going to buy the vote. Private donors were willing to fund the revote--and they were willing to share it 50/50 with Obama donors---however would be fair.

But you go on believing what you want to.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 2:21pm

the more i see of them, the more i think the country might benefit from having the bammy voters sit out the election. they seem to be predominantly inclined towards criminal stupidity.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/26/08 at 2:32pm

Today's Gallup poll.

How can anyone say Hillary's the only one with a "math problem"?