waterboarding was not used to establish a relationship between iraq and al qaeda

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 8:56am

according to the post. i seem to have heard that alleged here a few times.

i think those people calling for the truth commission might just give the gop the '10 mid-terms after all is said and done.

another

Updated On: 5/18/09 at 08:56 AM

[madbrian]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 9:18am

I don't know, Papa. I don't see anyone coming out of this as winners. I don't see the GOP benefitting from 'waterboarding isn't torture' or 'we did it selectively' or 'look at the results'. But they'll be able to drag Pelosi along with them for complicity.

As for the 2010 midterms, I think historical precedent would show swings back toward the minority, but the road for the GOP is not an easy one. They're in such disarray that it's hard to see them getting their house in order by then. Plus, the economy may turn around just in time for the Dems to take credit, deserved or not. Throw in the relative weakness of some of the Republican senators up for re-election, and they seem to have more seats 'at risk' than the Dems. And the Dems' majority in the House right now is overwhelming.

Updated On: 5/18/09 at 09:18 AM

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 10:01am

The 2 Party system in this country, SUCKS!!!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 10:16am

Hmmm.

I am not so sure. Granted, the article below is based upon speculation, rather than self-serving statements of those who approved or used these techniques, so who really knows. Until people are under oath, telling exactly what happened when (including what members of Congress and the Administration knew what when), and on whose orders these techniques were used, we will never know.

"The substance of the intelligence that was being sought from him has been an object of some speculation, with several defenders of the interrogation practice arguing that the goal was to prevent an impending attack on America. But a line buried on page 353 of the July 2004 Select Committee on Intelligence report on pre-Iraq war intelligence strongly suggests that the interrogation was just as centered on a possible Iraq-al-Qaeda link as terrorist activity.

"CTC [Counter Terrorist Center] noted that the questions regarding al-Qaida's ties to the Iraqi regime were among the first presented to senior al-Qaida operational planner Khalid Shaikh Muhammad following his capture."

Revelations that KSM was questioned about possible al Qaeda ties to Iraq at roughly the same time that he was undergoing waterboarding provides some key insight into the purpose of the CIA interrogations. A recently de-classified Senate Armed Services Committee report quoted army psychologist Maj. Paul Burney as saying that a large part of his time on a Behavioral Science Consultation Team was "focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq." McClatchy newspapers, meanwhile, published an article last month citing a former intelligence official acknowledging that the Bush administration had pressured interrogators to use harsh techniques to produce evidence connecting the terrorist organization and Iraq's regime.
No so Sure.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 10:36am

I think if the torture probe goes anywhere, it will tarnish both parties, because Rove and Cheney were crafty enough to insist on bipartisan assent.

I think Pelosi knew this from the beginning. It was their doomsday button: If we go down, you're going down with us.

The Democrats have a lot more to lose.

The only thing the Republicans have to worry about is a third party, made up of the disaffected social conservatives and the angry fiscal conservatives, who feel that the big-business Republicans and the neo-Cons sold out all that was good about small-town America.

That 3rd party might never win, but it would destroy forever the coalition put together by Nixon and Reagan.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/18/09 at 12:01pm

i don't think a torture probe or "truth committee" (soooo very thrid worldy, thanks barry and the blog-o-sphere) will do much damage to the gop. the fact is the lines are already drawn on this and facts are not going to change anyone's opinions.

the people that see what was done as being wrong will not be convinced anything could ever justify it. the people who see it as necessary policy are not going to be convinced that it was not.

i don't see how an investigation tarnishes the gop anymore than they already are. all it will do is show that a lot of the heroes on the left knew all along what was happening, lied about knowing and continue lying about knowing.

even if the gop splits in time for the midterms, pj, and i doubt they will - maybe after if we have another dismal showing - i think that the local nature of the house races will minimize its effect. now if there's a split after '10 it basically guarantees four more years for barry which will be the argument the gop uses to try to preserve the union. i doubt it will work though if we get slaughtered in the midterms. if we lose even more seats then, it'll be, "unleash the cobalt thorium g!!!"