yet another despicable baptist....

[Pippin]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:45am

this is totally ridiculous. the poor woman is 81, and they decide NOW to let her go.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.
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Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.

"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).

LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.

"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.

"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."

Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.

William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.

"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.

The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.

"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.
"women can't teach men in the church"

[singtopher]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:48am

I saw an article about this yesterday. Hearing about this makes me physically ill.

[ZONEACE]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:49am

It always makes me laugh when those peopel take literally only select parts of the bible.

[jimnysf]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:49am

All religions are crazy but it seems that the baptists are the looniest. Remember that everything all religions do is in the name of God, Allah, Jesus, etc so it must be OK.

[Calvin]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:50am

My aunt is a strict southern Baptist and completely buys into all that submission nonsense -- except when it applies to her.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:56am

I saw a picture of the pastor, and he looks like he is 12!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 11:59am

Technically, I am Southern Baptist but I am going to go to another denomination ASAP. I hate when people take certain things from the Bible literally, when it was really just about the time it was written in. My preacher once said that if a position is available within the church, that God would rather it go unfulfilled than be taught by a woman. Let's just say A LOT of women in the church were in an uproar.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 12:49pm

I was born and raised Southern Baptist but consider myself nondenominational now. Growing up, there were all male pastors at my HUGE church. We had a minister of music, minister of seniors, minister of youth, minister of outreach and a director of children. The reason the children only got a director is because it was the only spot filled by a woman. She worked rings around all the other men. I had many friends that went to Seminary after college, both girls and boys. I never understood why a woman would put herself through three years of seminary when she would graduate with the same credits as the boys, but be considered a second class citizen. I guess the girls were looking for their MRS. degrees. Which they all pretty much got.

This is a sad story. The fact that they are using this excuse to let the woman go is just ridiculous. There does, however, appear to be more to the story. I would love to know the other reasons behind her dismissal. If they are using this passage as grounds, it couldn't be all that bad.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 1:03pm

But 'Christian courtesy' allows them to use her gender as a means for firing her?

Wonder what some Baptist congregations are thinking of the Episcopal church and the selection of a woman as the head bishop?

[Magdalene]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 2:08pm

This is so funny! He's probably cheating on his wife---and will find a quote in the Bible to excuse it!

[DG]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 2:17pm

"Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y."

Scariest part of the article.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 5:18pm

After reading this man's statement on the church website, it sounds like this was about much more than just a woman teaching a men's Bible class. His references to "before I came the church was in fear of closing" and "there were some who didn't like what I did" makes me think that he's developing his own little band of "LaBouf Christians" and he's going to get rid of anyone who doesn't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He also alludes to an earlier instance where people disagreed with him and took it public to the papers, and I believe this teacher was one of those who didn't jump right into his new ideas and policies.

I've worked in church situations for many years now, and I know there are personality conflicts that emerge everytime a new pastor is installed. It seemed to me that this was his way of getting rid of the dissenters in the congregation, and he found a scripture to back him up!

All that said, I am always shocked by Christian denominations that consider women to be inferior to men. I grew up in the Moravian church, where most of the schools were started by women, women were some of the first missionaries, and women served all sorts of leadership roles. I remember going to a college bible study and the woman saying "didn't you ever feel as if you were being suppressed? That you couldn't do something in the church?" And I honestly had to answer, "No!".

[Jyn326]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 6:01pm

I take offense to references indicating that the Baptist religion is despicable and loony and such. As any other religion, it has its flaws. The religion is based on believing the Bible to be the true and accurate word of God. Baptists try to follow the teachings of the Bible. The leaders of the church are expected to uphold those teachings. However, no one expects every person to read a Bible passage and see it the same way. That's why most pews have a copy of the Bible for the congregation and everyone is encouraged to own and study their own Bible. Baptists are NOT expected to blindly follow what their Pastor says, but to take it into consideration then study and pray to see if they feel that that is what God truly wants.

For the record, I am a Southern Baptist. I was raised in the church. I was 22 now and have lived by myself for the past 3 years. There has been no one forcing me to go. My dad now belongs to a differenct church- so I certainly do not go to this one to please him. I attend church and believe in God not because I am brainwashed or anything 'loony' like that. I believe for the same reasons people of other faiths believe the way they do. It feels true and right to me.

What I don't understand is why it is ok to blast certain groups of people on here. Conservatives and Christians (yes- usually they are one in the same) are constantly attacked as a whole for the negative actions of one. People like Bush, LaBouf, and Mel Gibson seem to be the perfect starting point for attacking every other Christian. As if we are all money hungry, sexist, and judgemental. If someone started a thread attacking someone who was Jewish or homesexual (for example) countless posters would jump on them. But it seems to be perfectly okay to attack Christians. Why it is assumed that most of the people on this board are all liberals and feel the same way you do? Why is it that just because we are in the minority on this board that we shouldn't have a voice, too?

I do not attack other religions or lifestyles. All I'm asking is you don't attack mine.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 6:02pm

The guy is an idiot but don't tar all Baptists because of this clown

[DG]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 6:07pm

jyn - interestingly, that's the same basic arguement I'd like brought up at the annual Southern Baptist Convention when they start espousing their vitriolic hatred for the minority that I happen to be a part of. Perhaps you can view the tolerance level here the same way I view theirs when they call for the boycott of corporations that don't conform to their brand of 'loving Christ-like behavior.'

[Jyn326]

Posted: 8/22/06 at 6:22pm

DG- I do understand. I have a huge problem with the SBC. I don't envy the position they are in. They are trying, I would like to think, but they make many, many mistakes. Calling for a boycott of corporation is kinda like boycotting Mel Gibson movies. When boycott something that you don't agree with, you are hurting more that what you are intending. Boycotting corporations hurts everyone in that corporation including 'your own'. You know there are probably Christians working in that corporation somewhere down the line. Like boycotting Mel Gibson movies because he throws Jewish slurs could hurt Jews as well who may happen to be working on that movie.

Boycotting is a way for people to stand up and say "what you are doing is wrong and I don't support it" and I can understand that mentality. But at the same time, it doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

I would hope that the tolerance level on here would be higher than it is, considering there are all different types of people on this board. That's what makes the theatre community so wonderful. Plays and musicals are created and performed by people who bring in different backgrounds, experiences, and beliefs. So it should be expected that that diversity exists in those who enjoy theatre.