A QUEER Year with Frog and Toad

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 2:46pm

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack for this, but here is my review of the current tour and the gay undertones of the text.


Frog and Toad Review

[BkCollector]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:00pm

Enjoyable review, a bit opinion heavy vs fact heavy, but readable nonetheless.

I don't see the gay connection though. According to your review, men that are nice to each other must be gay.

Hrm....

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:12pm

Has a straight man ever written his friend a letter saying he can't live without him. C'mon!

GAY GAY GAY!

[SDav 10495]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:26pm

Maybe it's unfair that I haven't actually, ya know, seen the show, but your review made me a believer.

[Jon]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:26pm

With the right (or wrong) direction and casting, Frog and Toad can be very gay.

When we did it (we had the Chicago premiere), we had 2 very butch actors in the roles. There was absolutely no gay over (or under)tones.

Based on the photos of the production in Seattle, tjhe problem may be that Frog AND Toad both appear to be young and fit. Ideally, Toad should be dumpy and middle-aged, and look FUNNY in a bathing suit.
Updated On: 3/16/08 at 03:26 PM

[Liverpool]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:27pm

or there were just really butch gay overtones

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:46pm

Yes, my observation had very much to do with the casting, though I feel there are moments in the text that influenced my opinion as well.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 3:51pm

a bit opinion heavy vs fact heavy, but readable nonetheless.

Well, this is not a research article, it's a blog/column, it is meant to be opinion-heavy, and I think Bobby uses enough facts to support his opinion. I have never seen the show or listened to the score, but I can see where Bobby is coming from (judging from his examples).

[BkCollector]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 4:14pm

Even a blog should be (on my opinion) less "what I did in school today" and more "this is my educated opinion" I see more and more opinion sans education on most blogs. I'm just encouraging this promising writer to try to be a cut above the rest.

"Has a straight man ever written his friend a letter saying he can't live without him."

Yes. And I thought these were animals, not men.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 4:19pm

If they are homos why don't they hibernate together?

[blaxx]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 4:25pm

Oh, you know what happens when homos sleep together for too long - "It's just me, Toad, not you...you're a great Toad."

[Unknown User]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 7:14pm

I thought that was only among Lesbians-

And if one is a Frog and one is a Toad aren't they practising beastiality too?

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 10:34pm

I think we still have to remember that "Frog and Toad" is geared primarily towards kids.

I know it may not be as much the case today - but a lot of the cartoons and books I read when I was a kid dealt with characters of the same sex who were good friends. Never for one second did I ever make the connection that they could be gay no matter how big the overtone was (not that I knew what being gay was back then either).

I believe that if you wanted to, you could find gay overtones in pretty much all of them now -

Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street is the obvious one - and how many rumors were there about Mister Rogers being a closeted homosexual - was it because he wore cartigans? because had a neat house? was friends with a "Mr. McFeely"? or because he had tea parties with puppets in the Land of Make Believe?

Even cartoons for older kids weren't much better. I used to love He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. How many female characters were on the show? I can only think of three (Teela, Evil Lynn and the Sorceress for those of you wondering). The rest of the characters were a band of half naked buff guys in spandex. And G.I. Joe? Come on...you know some of those guys were "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". How many "female" Transformers were there?

I guess at a young age kids are more likely to relate to groups of close friends of the same sex, rather than a mixed group of boys and girls. Maybe because its during the elementary years where most boys and girls find each other "icky".

If Frog and Toad were a male and a female would it make things different? Would sexual overtones go away? I don't think so. Some people wouldn't buy the whole friend thing -- because obviously a man and woman couldn't possibly be that close to one another without a little someting something going on behind closed doors.

I think their relationship can be whatever you want yourself to believe. If you want to believe that they're gay, then the story lends itself to that; of course if you want to believe that they're straight, it lends itself to that too.

Oh well...just my 2 cents worth.

[Not Barker, Todd.]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 10:42pm

I think america has forgotten that intimate platonic friendships can and do exist. I see where you're coming from, but I wish we didn't have to sexualize everything.

Updated On: 3/16/08 at 10:42 PM

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 10:50pm

I agree

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 10:52pm

Platonic. "Plutonic" has to do with geology.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 10:56pm

Bobby isn't necessarily sexualizing the relationship as much as he is "queering" it. Eve Sedwick has an interesting term for the kind of relationship that I understand is shown in this musical (again, never seen it so I'm going off what I read on Bobby's blog); she would define this as a "homosocial" relationship which is basically a male-male relationship where you have this kind of bond, and there is the possibility of a sexual tension that is never talked about and never fulfilled.
I think Bobby gives quite an interesting point of view. Who's to say that just because it's children's theater it doesn't mean that there could be a queer couple?

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 11:03pm

I agree that they could be gay, however, I think it is up to each viewer to decide.

When a child watches the show, they won't sexualize the characters at all but just think of them as friends and focus on the funny adventures they share.

When an older person watches the show, as is our nature, we automatically will try to put them into some sort of sexual context - and then use their actions to justify which context we choose.

I don't think there is enough evidence either way in the text to definitively say that they are a gay couple or just good friends, however, there are just enough instances where it could be a point of discussion.

Updated On: 3/16/08 at 11:03 PM

[Not Barker, Todd.]

Posted: 3/16/08 at 11:21pm

I just have a problem with what seems to be there always being a need to insert sex (potential or active, spoken or unspoken) into every close relationship. I'm don't really have a problem with Bobby's point, other than it's just a general pet peeve of mine.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 3/17/08 at 2:28am

Ah ha, but there's my point. Queer has nothing to do with sex. A homosexual or a straight relationship, for that matter, does not last because of sex. Sex can bring two people together but so can kindness and respect for each other. You can BE in love with someone without sex.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 3/17/08 at 8:52am

I still don't think you need to Wayne Kostenbaum or Eve Sedwick this show. I think it's a kid's show, and while it's a valid reading, I don't think the reading adds to anyone's understanding of the show, that's why I think the reading is cheap.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 3/17/08 at 9:10am

I agree that it is entirely innocent of sexual intent, there is nothing overt in any way shape or form. But when I saw the Broadway production I did start to wonder how long it was gonna take some of the more advanced kids in the audience to think that there was more than met the eye about the extreme devotion these two characters felt for each other.