Ahrens and Flaherty: Modern Masters of the Opening Number?- Page 2

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 1/14/06 at 9:30pm

John Popa, I didn't know that about Ahrens and Flaherty. Thanks for sharing that bit of info.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 1/14/06 at 11:01pm

"I've always believed that if Ragtime opened before Ragtime..."

I'm assuming either a typo or you think the musical would have been better suited for the 1910's

[jam_man]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:14am

Actually, after I posted that, I was worried I had left that part out all together. But yes, of course, it was a typo. I'll leave it as is, though, because that's not a bad line, wickedrentq.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:20am

I still wonder why Ragtime did not become a major hit. I think it's because people expected to get something along the lines of the British crowd-pleasing completely pointless shows just because it had a big cast and it is as epic as those shows, and ended up facing a musical about so many themes, raising so many questions, and dealing with so many issues. The fact that it opened the same season as The Lion King didn't help either, and of course the fraud was a major problem. Still, this is the kind of show that at least I hope becomes a major American classic, Scott Miller says it deserves a place next to shows like Showboat and Passion, I agree. And yes, it does feature a mind-blowing opening number, everything about that opening number worked.

[jam_man]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:27am

I agree whole-heartedly. And I believe that in about 35-40 years when most people who have seen The Lion King will be older, then Ragtime will be looked on as a Musical Theatre landmark, because once The Lion King goes away, that's it - it's not going to be re-imagined any in the future the way Ragtime will be (and has been already - see London production). Ragtime will be West Side Story to The Lion King's The Music Man.

However, that's a topic for a different thread (wink, wink).

PS - The above statement is not ment to take anything away from The Music Man - I absolutly love and adore The Music Man.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:33am

Who says Ragtime didn't become a hit? Well maybe not financially but it woulda stayed long if not for the fruad. i think that's the sole reason for it closing early. I mean it was also epic not only in cast size, but orchestra crew, all the tricks they used. It gets expensive maintaining all of that. I think most people recognize Ragtime as great theatre. it ran for two years. While that is not a huge success, it's a respectable run. It's being done all over the world now.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:44am

I meant a hit the size of Les Miserables or Wicked. It is a greatly successful piece of theater but honestly it didn't get the run it deserved, I mean, look at how much money Spamalot is making, I believe a show like Ragtime deserved to make that much money. I am glad it is being done, I wished I had been able to see Marin Mazzie, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Audra McDonald, and Judy Kaye on the same show though.

[jam_man]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:45am

That's true, but I don't think anyone can ignore the fact that The Lion King has been SIGNIFICANTLY more successful than Ragtime.

I'm starting to feel guilty for threadjacking, so I'll go ahead and start a new Ragtime debate thread. Come join me in a couple minutes!

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 2:06am

I think I've asked this before...maybe someone could PM me, but could someone explain about this "fraud" and Ragtime's legal troubles and such? I never heard anything about this.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 2:13am

Basically Livent (the company producing Ragtime) had a few other shows performing. I think it might have been showboat or something. anyway Garth was using the money that Ragtime made and paying the Showboat bills. With a huge show like Ragtime, that can get pretty dangerous. I mean there's more to it than that but that's it on a basic level.

[Attendthetale331]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 12:10pm

the first song to Once on this Island is very good and energetic and the openingh number to ragtime is very good.

[broadwaybelter]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 12:15pm

-The opening number in once on this island is soo much fun and lovely to listen to
-We are descened from Dessarose very beautiful
-the opening number from their christmas movie w/Kelsey grammar was very good as well

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 12:23pm

RAGTIME was over produced on Broadway - and frankly the pre hype on the show was too much. Livent was very cocky with the property. They began running double full page color ads in the New York Times over a year before the show opened on Broadway, etc. I know a lot of industry people were turned off by that, and there was a certain smug satisfaction when THE LION KING opened, because everyone knew it would just steamroll Darth and his baby.

Terrible, I know - but thats how the industry works.
Updated On: 1/15/06 at 12:23 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 12:23pm

Ahrens and Flaherty are the masters of writing great opening numbers to shows nobody wants to see...SUESSICAL, DESSA ROSE, RAGTIME, ONCE ON THIS ISLAND - as we speak, they are probably working a fantastic opening number for a musical of GHANDI.

Their work is wonderful though - I love the opening of RAGTIME, but I could have done without the line = "There were gazebos and there were no negros" which is one of my favorite - "worst" lyrics of the last twenty years.

[broadwaybelter]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 12:39pm

i really hope they are working on some more shows for us

[adamgreer]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:04pm

That line makes me laugh because it's such a terrible rhyme. There are so many wonderful lyrics in that show, and that one is just terrible.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 2:22pm

didn't realize there were so many lyricists out there...

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 7:58pm

"That line makes me laugh because it's such a terrible rhyme."

Well it doesn't rhyme at all and thats part of the problem. You know the only reason "gazebos" is there, is because they couldn't find a rhyme for "negros".

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:12pm

For some reason, that line never bothered me.