Angels in America...- Page 2
Angels in America...
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#25
Posted: 12/8/03 at 11:51amI can't wait to see this. I saw the National Theatre production in Manchester and loved it will all my heart. They are easily the plays that I have read the most too. I guess I will have to wait for the Region 1 DVD that people seem to be expecting next february / march since it is not going to be shown on television here till Autumn 2004 I believe.
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
re: Angels in America...#26
Posted: 12/8/03 at 12:10pmI wonder why they would wait so long to show it in the UK, especially since Angels hit London long before it became a big deal on Broadway.
re: re: Angels in America...#27
Posted: 12/8/03 at 12:13pmLook how long they make us wait for AbFab. Tis only fair. Still Lee, I feel your pain.
re: re: re: Angels in America...#28
Posted: 12/8/03 at 12:29pm
auggie, i can see your point to a certain degree as to what experience a younger viewer may bring to this film but i also believe that the work should be able to stand on its own. so far, part 1 tended to be on the boring side. i can feel it building and will give it time since i liken it to a good book that sometimes takes 100 or so pages to really get into the "meat of things."
with that said, i think it's interesting how it is likely that our experiences may deepen our response to a given work. being in my early 30's, i've grown up with so many images of what it means to be gay, early onset of AIDS, etc. and perhaps it is not as affecting as it once was, or could be, if i had personally experienced the horror of the arrival of this disease in 1980s new york.
it's not that i am insensitive but i was greatly moved by other works, like "it's my party," "longtime companion" and to some degree "philadelphia." when prior showed his lesion in "angels," i was not blown away, i just sort of took it for granted or did not think it was a bombshell.
PED
re: Angels in America...#29
Posted: 12/8/03 at 12:43pmAlthough I've never seen it on stage, I have read it several times. Considering how often film versions of plays/musicals are mutilated, I was quite pleasantly surprised to see how much of the original script was retained. I had performed the Pryor/Harper hallucination scene and it was verbatim. I was completely absorbed and engaged. The scenes that dragged a little for me in the film dragged for me as well upon reading. Mostly the Roy Cohn scenes only because I have a problem with incompassionate characters as focal points (i.e. hate Glengarry Glen Ross). But I do think the casting was inspired and the direction tight and well-focused. By far, better than anything in theatres this year.
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
re: re: Angels in America...#30
Posted: 12/8/03 at 12:55pm
RobbO,
What I think is interesting is that you bring up Longtime Companion (one of my favorite movies), Philadelphia and It's My Party (two movies that I thought were unclear or overwrought in their execution). Those three movies clearly took AIDS as its subject.
Although AIDS is a major theme in ANGELS, I believe it is merely a device used to discuss broader issues (ie. how do people react during times of great crisis). The Millenuim is approaching and, in that time of horror, what new horrors await us? Many, as we've come to find out. Which is why the story still resonates.
I read on another chat board that someone was disappointed because ANGELS didn't make them cry.
It never made me cry either. But it moved me and disturbed me and has and always will make me anxious. It tells us that things will always change, things will always fall apart and the only solution is great work of living life.
re: re: re: Angels in America...#31
Posted: 12/8/03 at 1:27pm
robbiej - i think what you're saying emphasizes my point. my reaction to prior's showing of his lesion was not "so what?" but rather "okay, what is this trying to relate in the context of this story..."
i did not see it as so shocking or disturbing that i needed to cry but neither do i think that was the point as you mention "angels" is not singularly about AIDS.
PED
Broadway Star Joined: 10/26/03
re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#32
Posted: 12/8/03 at 5:41pm
I have been hesitant in getting into "Angels of America" because of how depressed I felt when I came out of watching HBO's "The Laramie Project", but after last night, I'm just left speechless. I honestly am. This is my first experience to the show. Right now, I think Tony Kushner is my new god. LOL! I'm serious. I tried writing a piece on AIDS, but my teachers always told me to "write what you know" and I haven't really come face to face with AIDS yet so my scenes were always surreal, and now I understand why. I sympathize with Prior most of all. Men are pigs, especially ones you live 4 years with and THEN DITCH YOU! I couldn't get over that!!! I was in tears when the scared #$%#^& packed his bags and left. I'm still emotionally drained from watching that last night. I can't wait until Part 2. My favorite character, from last night, has to be Harper though. Mary-Louise Parker is just an amazing actress.
P.S. I LOVED THE THRESHOLD OF REVELATION! The Wizard of Oz reference was priceless because I just got done watching it. "People come and go so quickly..." Prior rocks. I am a new born fan of Tony Kushner.
re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#33
Posted: 12/8/03 at 6:28pmLOL...Bill, you're being a little hard on Louis. He loved Pryor and he tried as best he could. It can't be easy to watch someone you love slowly dying. I think many people see this character as one who is cold and a coward. I tend to see him as human. Some people are able to muster up teh strength needed to deal with a partners illness, some can't in spite of how much love tehy feel for the person. In fact, maybe it's because you love someone so much taht you have to walk away so as not to see what happens to them.
Broadway Star Joined: 10/26/03
re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#34
Posted: 12/8/03 at 6:32pmI think the total opposite, Orion. If you love someone enough, you stick it out through the bad times. "Til death do us part". True, Prior and Louis aren't tied in matrimony, but those 4 years have to count for something in equivalence to it. If Louis was really leaving Prior out of love, why would he go out and get screwed in Central Park / why would he make advances on Joe?
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#35
Posted: 12/8/03 at 6:34pmI don't need to go on about the movie/show itself as Namo, Robbie and Auggie have pretty much said all I wanted to BUT...did anyone else find Patrick Wilson alarmingly bad and moreover, boring? His scenes with Shenkman (who I find about as charming as a slab of meat) were totally uninspired. I know Dolly is going to have a fit after reading this, but really, he did nothing for me. For my money, it's Kirk and Wright who are the brilliant stand-outs.
re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#36
Posted: 12/8/03 at 6:54pmI think ideally, you're right. If you love someone enough it's for better or worse, sickness and health, all of that. That's the way it should be. However, sometimes it doesn't happen that way. It doesn't mean that you don't love the person you're walking away from. It's weak to that but some people are weaker than others and unable to deal with the illness. I see Louis as one of those while others see him as an a##hole. As far as why he hooked up in Central Park and made a pass at Joe, I could give my theory but it would take so long to type and would likely be boring to many on this board.
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#37
Posted: 12/8/03 at 7:00pm
personally, i can relate to louis. i cannot imagine how hard it would be to watch someone die and face your own mortality in the process. does he stay and continue in a relationship that could expose him to infection himself (plus, remember the time period is mid-80s and he does not know to what extent he could get infected himself - thru kissing, casual contact, etc.)
as much as i would like to think that i would stay, i cannot honestly say what i would do if i were in his shoes. and as for the screwing in central park, i think that his guilt drove him to that. he says he doesn't care when the condom breaks and to "go ahead, infect me." the sex obviously was not about love and not about just getting his rocks off, it was about the way he was feeling. remember he says he wants to be hurt and to "make me bleed."
PED
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/03
re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#38
Posted: 12/8/03 at 7:04pm
Al: Well, as I've shared here before, in heated debate, I had a bit of a problem with the way Kushner leaves the character of Joe in part two. It's yet to come so, NO SPOILER HERE! I won't elaborate, but I was smitten with the emotionally full, vulnerable performance of David Marshall Grant on B'way. I was "rooting" for Joe to come to Jesus (come to ... Oscar Wilde?) throughout.
SO: Though I basically share your take on Wilson -- he's a bit of a Stepford Morman, robotic without anything quite on par with D. Marshall Grant's humanity creeping through -- his more hollowed out presence may make the 2nd half work far better. In the Joe/Harper scenes in the film, I'm connecting with Harper. On B'way, I was with the tortured Mr. Grant every difficult step of his journey. Casting really does make an enormous difference, no? As does ... personal taste in actors, alas.
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#39
Posted: 12/8/03 at 7:08pmI think that's a huge part of it, his guilt, that drives him to engage in risky sex in teh park. There is also this whole psychological thing taht happens when you are dealing with a sick loved one. That's teh part I didn't even want to try to explain. For some people, the sexual urge is strongest when you've just left your lover in the hopspital after an all nighter in the emergency room. The stress and fear can easily come out as sexual desire.
Broadway Star Joined: 10/26/03
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#40
Posted: 12/9/03 at 6:37pmDoes anyone know if the script is online somewhere? I just need 3 scenes. The Coming Out scene between Joe and his Mom / the Coming Out scene between Joe and Harper / and the Threshold of Revelation scene with Prior and Harper.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#41
Posted: 12/9/03 at 6:52pm
It is interesting to read the varying responses to ANGELS.
It appears that among gay men the responses vary as they well may vary in other segments of the theatre audience.
From those members who have posted their responses to seeing the film the level of resonance by ANGELS ranges from low to very high.
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#42
Posted: 12/9/03 at 10:33pmi tell ya, i just caught chapter 2 on hbo again tonite, and already i like angels more and more. so far, this is my favorite chapter. even so, i think my favorite scene is the one between roy cohn and ethel rosenberg. meryl is great in that scene. "oh, buttons!"
PED
Joined: 12/31/69
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#43
Posted: 12/9/03 at 10:39pm
That scene was exquisite in my opinion as well.
Did you, or anyone else notice, that none of the principals (Streep, DeNiro, Thompson) actually played any scenes together? Even if their characters were supposed to be in the same room (Streep & DeNiro) through editing (not to mention that Rosenberg is a "ghost") she and Bob were not actually on the set simultaneously? Same goes for the scene in the vacant lot in the Bronx...Thompson and Streep were not together when they filmed their lines. At least that what I recollect. If that's true, it demonstrates the high wattage of acting each of these are able to generate to make those scenes believable.
Bulldog.
Bulldog.
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#44
Posted: 12/10/03 at 7:32am
Pacino not DeNiro!
Bulldog...I agree with your point about the varying responses to Angels in America. Personally I find I'm drawn to art that creates such polar opposite responses. I think the worst criticism of art is "it's ok...". To me, the fact that Angels in America is generating so much discussion is a sign of it's effectiveness.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Angels in America...#45
Posted: 12/10/03 at 4:30pm
oops!. Sorry Al & Bob.
But hey, I watched it all the way thru!
Bulldog.
Chorus Member Joined: 7/28/03
My thoughts (not that anyone asked, but I thought I would offer anyway)#46
Posted: 12/12/03 at 1:51pm
When I saw Angels in New York I was a starving graduate student. I saw Part One standing room--I stood for 3 and a half hours and was transfixed. The next weekend I went to see a preview of Part Two because I couldn't wait to see what happened.
I agree with Namo on the realization scene. I still remember vividly the crosscutting between the couples and how moving it was, I think it missed something in the movie. Possibly it was David Marshall Grant, who I absolutely fell in love with and Marcia Gay Harden who, in my opinion, gave the best performance of Harper ever, although I enjoyed Ms. Parker's performance. I just didn't think it conveyed the sadness of Ms. Harden's performance.
The movie was wonderful though, everything for which I could have hoped. I missed the scene in which Hannah sells her house to move to New York, I think it was an important scene discussing the real estate agent wanting everyone to stay put (which is a central theme of the show--imho). I thought Meryl was amazing in her parts, especially the Rabbi, I rewatched that scene last night on HBO2 and was weeping by the end of the speech. I think that she was a little too emotional as Hannah, whereas Ms. Chaflant's Hannah was steely and cold.
Anyway, this went on way too long, sorry, can't talk about this show without babbling.
Angels#47
Posted: 12/14/03 at 3:51pm
I'm waiting for part II tonight, very excitedly. I thought part one was terrific, the acting across the board excellent. I did see the original Broadway production of Millennium Approaches, and I have to say that I think Justin Kirk's Prior is far more interesting than Steven Spinella's. I thought Spinella had two modes, campy bitchery on one hand and smug self righteousness on the other. I found Kirk to be much warmer, more human and sympathetic. When Kirk's Prior said, "Je t'aime" to Belize I believed he meant it. Spinella never convinced me at all.
The only element of the original production that I really missed was Ron Liebman's Roy Cohn. Liebman's opening scene, that multi-page harangue with him punching those buttons on the phone and screaming obscenities was one of the funniest and most alarming things I've ever seen on stage. I was sorry they cut the scene, and toned Cohn down. Well, I'm glad they decided to tone it down as long as Pacino was playing the role: I prefer Pacino in his less-is-more mode. I guess I miss that long scene because it was the one scene in the play when Cohn was shown in his element, as the raging favor broker gleefully doing and saying awful things.
I can't say I was very happy about the score. That ghastly Thomas Newman score is really bloody awful, a pseudo-New Age travesty. Too syrupy sweet, and it sounds a lot like everything else Thomas Newman has written. Feh.
Otherwise, there is a lot to admire in the movie so far. I can't wait to see how the second half is handled. The chance to see more of Jeffrey Wright's astonishing Belize has me very excited.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Angels#48
Posted: 12/14/03 at 9:55pm
Just for the record. It's 9:55pmEST and 26 members are online. Some may/may not be watching ANGELS. Who's to say?
My mother is staying for the holidays and she wasn't ready for 3 hours of TV tonight. I'll catch Part II another time.
Bulldog.
re: Angels in America...#49
Posted: 12/14/03 at 10:15pm
Justin Kirk is friggin' amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS I am now a Stand-by. Rob, this board is just toooooooooo cute!
"I broke the boundaries. It wasn't cool to be in plays- especially if you were in sports & I was in both." - Ashton Kutcher
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