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"Assassins" : Hit Or Miss — Page 2

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#26

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So true, JohnPopa. I think it's Wallace Stegner who said: Today's new species is tomorrow's three-headed cow---aberration, not innovation, and useless to everybody.
Yes, MisterMatt, The Frogs was performed before any of the other Sondheim shows---1900 years before, in fact. It's based on Aristophanes. But Shevelove didn't do his adaptation till 1974.
#27

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Matt,

My office Xmas party was on Tuesday and I'm still dragging!

At any rate, what I do find fascinating is that in one work, both of us have found differing (but I think valid) viewpoints about this work.

I'm even more intrigued to see what everyone thinks after they've seen this production.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#28

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HA HA HA MusicMan! Got me on that one! Seriously, I would happy is Sondheim's Frogs remained in obscurity. Instructions and Invocations was the only bit worth retaining from the show.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#29

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I don't think the score is the problem, it's the book and the format. The score works, although it could flesh things out. Right, it uses traditional Americana styles to illuminate these characters and to illustrate that, in many cases, they thought they were doing something for the good of the country, that they were patriots. (Booth especially.) But, when the music stops all we have are these meaningless book scenes that are just characters chattering at one another. Yes, they're desperately trying to illuminate and motivate but they aren't resonant. Not only do we not find ourselves in these characters, we don't find much of anyone. The Squaky/Sarah Jane scenes are trivial and comedic and undercut the idea that these people are part of any sort of movement, they come off as lunatics, no more, no less. Same with Byck's blathering. They're not hearing 'Another National Anthem,' they're just hearing madness and the show wants to hinge on the idea that there is the possibility that we can relate to these characters, or at least that it's dangerous to demonize them, rather than understand them. The final scene isn't persuausive enough and its message that this will lead Oswald to infamy is inconsistent with the more important notion that he might possibly be persuaded that he's doing the right thing. The assassins are presented that they BELIEVED in what they were doing but then try and manipulate Oswald into doing his job for himself. Doesn't work.

Updated On: 12/12/03 at 04:56 PM

#30

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Well, Popa, I agree with you there.

The compelling thing about Oswald (if you put the conspiracy theories aside) is his belief that he was doing what was right. To put Oswald and Booth together in the same scene and not address issues of patriotism is a mistake.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#32

re: re: re: 'Assassins' : Hit Or Miss

Suttonbebefaith Faith Prince Fan, or Andrew, is that you?
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by moments that take our breath away." "Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."
#33

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It always seemed to me to be a very slight show as there are only about 8 or so songs in it

The idea is intriguing & some songs ( Ballad of Booth , Unworthy of Your Love, Everybody's Got The Right ) are quite good but it seems to me to be to be very thin - Add about 4 or 5 more songs to it & you would have a full fledged offering. I will wait for some sort of heavily discounted offering to see it
Poster Emeritus
#34

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If any of us could predict correctly we certainly wouldn't be wasting our time here--we'd be producing musicals!

ASSASSINS has always been my least favorite of the ouevre.

How many of you emphathize with any in this group of characters? Could it be that maybe there's nobody to like in this show, or even root for?

Yours for better Broadway!

#35

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You kind of empathize with Booth after hearing his side of the situation. He was still wrong but you understand why he did it
Poster Emeritus
#36

re: 'Assassins' : Hit Or Miss

Wow...didn't mean to spark such a debate.

I do think it is one of Sondheim's best works and the music is haunting and beautiful.

That said..I still don't see people lining up for it.

And..no..I'm not andrewfan.
#37

re: 'Assassins' : Hit Or Miss

ASSASSINS is a great piece of musical theater - provocative, intelligent, witty and dramatically powerful with a top rate Sondheim score (and a second rate Sondhiem score would be superior to the best of most others). Broadway needs more, not less, of this kind of show to demonstrate that musical theater is still the highest of all art forms not just a vehicle for mass commercialism and "contrived" shows with mindless scripts that are purely the showcase for pop/rock songs. Otherwise Broadway theater is in danger of losing its greatest writing talent to off-Broadway "fringe" theater.

To suggest that this show is doomed to failure is to fail to give credit to the theater-going audience. This is the number one attraction to me in the announced Spring Season on Broadway and I am certain there are many others who will want to see a show that proves that serious musical theater is not dead.
THEATRE 2020: CURTAINS**** LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE GIRLS***** WICKED***** KEITH RAMSAY TAKING NOTES WITH EDWARD SECKERSON***** KAYLEIGH MCKNIGHT CONCERT***** RAGS***** ON MCQUILLAN'S HILL** DEAR EVAN HANSEN***** THE JURY***
#38

re: re: 'Assassins' : Hit Or Miss

bob8rich - I think shows like Urinetown and Avenue Q help prove that the art form is still alive and well on Broadway. The commercial shows help keep Broadway alive by bringing in the tourists to Times Square, so it's good to have them there as well. During the off-broadway movement of the 60s, most of the best shows originated Off-Broadway with only a few transferring. Broadway is still kicking, so I don't think it's in any danger. If Sondheim decided only to write for fringe or Off-Broadway, what difference would it make? Hopefully, his shows are not judge by the house in which they run.

Broadway Bulldog - I empathize with the characters of Assassins more than I could with those of Bounce. The book for Assassins kept me intrigued from start to finish. The book for Bounce made me look at my watch every 5 minutes.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#39

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"Broadway is still kicking, so I don't think it's in any danger."

I'm afraid I think it IS in danger - as is the West End - over being overerrun by the mega-pop musical with non-original scores whose only aim is to make money. There is no encouragement for new writers to write musicals for Broadway theater. If this trend continues, there will be no future generations of Sondheims.


"If Sondheim decided only to write for fringe or Off-Broadway, what difference would it make? Hopefully, his shows are not judge by the house in which they run."

I agree they should not be JUDGED by the house in which they run. My point is that producers should back these shows and not insult the theater going audience by suggesting that "high art" shows cannot make money. There is a place for the pop show musical - obviously if masses of people flock to them - but they are not the ONLY kind of show that can attract an audience.
THEATRE 2020: CURTAINS**** LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE GIRLS***** WICKED***** KEITH RAMSAY TAKING NOTES WITH EDWARD SECKERSON***** KAYLEIGH MCKNIGHT CONCERT***** RAGS***** ON MCQUILLAN'S HILL** DEAR EVAN HANSEN***** THE JURY***
#40

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bob8rich - But the pop shows aren't the only shows attracting audiences on Broadway. It might be true to the West End, but they have always had different opinion musical theatre. I think shows like Rent, Urinetown and Avenue Q are testaments that intelligent writing can be rewarded.

I completely agree with your point about the producers of musicals. The only reason Urinetown is closing is because the producers chose a house that scheduled renovations thinking it would not survive more than 18 months. Otherwise, it would probably run for several more years. Broadway musicals have survived through many weak seasons and great tragedies including the assassination of JFK and 9/11. If the producers are brave enough to stand behind the works of these artists, then they will market them in a way that will draw the audiences. The problem with something like Parade is that it was not marketed well and most people didn't know anything about it.

I also think one of the problems lie in the Tonys. It is an extremely high profile event that definitely influences and impacts the life of the shows. Shows like Falsettos, Passion, and Into the Woods definitely deserved longer runs, but were overshadowed by the decisions of the Tony voters.

Here's the catch - Are we expecting too much of Broadway? If you look back to the 20s and 30s, musicals were simply vehicles to showcase the music of popular writers. Many songs were trunk songs pulled out with a book loosely fitted around them. They were nothing more than an excuse to listen to some fun songs with singing and dancing. If you look at the books of Porter and Gershwin shows, they range from intelligent (Of Thee I Sing) to mildly amusing (Anything Goes) to downright laughable (Strike Up the Band). So why do we have to expect more now? Obviously, there has been a little progress since both Cabaret and Chicago revivals have surpassed the runs of the originals.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#41

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Wait a minute, MisterMatt. Passion won a Tony Award for Best Musical, Into the Woods and Falsettos both won the award for Best Book and Score. Passion failed because the characters and situation were not made credible or compelling for a contemporary audience, particularly among the distaff set, which is why some of the more melodramatic scenes were greeted with laughter and derision. Into the Woods (1987) is considered one of Sondheim's most commercially successful musicals, thanks to its marketing (reputedly the placement of the inflatable boot atop the marquee turned the show's fortunes around). Parade already had a built-in subscription audience at Lincoln Center but was unsuccessful because it failed to effectively dramatize its main concern, which was the estrangement and reconciliation of Leo Frank and his wife. No, the Tony Awards are not the problem.
I don't believe in looking back. An 18th century philosopher argued that the ancients were wiser than the moderns. And Voltaire replied: "Yes, that's true. The wise old men are giants and we are only dwarves. But the difference is that we are sitting on their shoulders." That's how I feel about the musical.We can appreciate the legacy but not necessarily its mannerisms, just as we return to Shakespeare and the Bible, not for historical fact, but for the poetry and insights into the human condition. By stepping backward, we move forward.
No one can deny that the American musical has taken enormous strides since the days of Oklahoma!, extending the range of its subject matter, stagecraft and storytelling techniques. Many exciting innovations have resulted from these pioneering efforts. But for all its advances, it's my belief that the musical seems to have lost touch with what it does best--entertainment with an idea, celebrating our humanity with intelligence and feeling. In other words, the modern musical lacks craftsmanship and soul.
It seems to me the the enormous influence of Sondheim and his collaborators (not unlike Wagner's in the opera world), the intellectual cachet accorded their work by the press, and the media's ever-insistent mandate to MAKE IT NEW, has spawned a whole generation of writers and producers who, hell-bent in their ambition on becoming charter members of the modern elite, concern themselves more with "pushing the envelope," or blazing new trails, being "edgy" and serious with SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SAY rather than connecting with their audience in basic, fundamental ways.
The musicals of the Golden Age were not above being direct, accessible, humorous, romantic and, yes, even corny in their desire to entertain and have continued to do so 50 years after their initials productions. The notion that Rodgers and Hammerstein wrote "dark" musicals is absurd and just an excuse for latter-day directors to impose their fingerprints on the work. In truth, R&H were comparable to Shakespeare, who presented both the dark and the light sides of life, the spiritual and carnal in his work.
Today's shows are simply not landing with audiences, generally due to boneheaded thinking, poor dramaturgy and/or undistinguished and unmemorable scores with little appeal and no emotional payoff. But rather than taking stock and doing some soul-searching, the industry points the finger at the audience (as do many on this board) and cries: " THE AUDIENCE IS WRONG." This is a far cry from the appraisal Oscar Hammerstein gave Allegro when he stated that he "overestimated the audience's ability to identify with the character and situation" (probably the problem with most shows today, despite their high ambitions) and took responsibility for his own work. Let's not forget the audience today is generally a middle-class, middle-aged and educated cross-section of people who are well-read and patronize the arts, be it museums, concerts or theaters. Think about it: How many musicals are there, truly worthy of recognition, that have somehow slipped under the radar and are deserving of reconsideration? ( Given the nature of producing today, the horrendous flop of four years ago probably has a stronger chance of being produced than new work.) If there are any, they are very few. Ultimately, Broadway is in the communication business: if they don't communicate, they're not in business.
As far as the mega-hits are concerned, let me ask this: Was the world sitting around, holding its breath for an ABBA musical? I don't think so. But if Broadway can't or won't offer stories and songs that allow for audience identification and involvement, than the audience will settle for the next best thing--revelling in the familiar. Nature, after all, abhors a vacuum.

Updated On: 12/13/03 at 05:32 PM

#42

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MusicMan - Very good point made. When I was referring to the Tonys, I meant specifically Best Musical, which is most recognized by your average-joe ticket-buyer (the bulk of Broadway audiences). Into the Woods was one of Sondheim's most commercially successful shows, but not during its original Broadway run. But Sondheim shows are rarely commercially successful on Broadway. Mostly regional or touring productions.

The relationship of Leo and his wife is supposed to be the main concern of Parade? What about the anti-semitic views of a post-Civil War South trying deserately to cling to their wounded pride? A region infamous for spawning the KKK who fought to keep slaves chooses the word of a black convict over a white man simply because he is a Jew from the North. The reconciliation of Leo and his wife was merely a romantic by-product of the real issue. I think the show, like Assassins, reflects a bitter truth in American history that American audiences just aren't willing to face. Americans can rarely face criticism unless it is served up with irreverant humor or some epiphany of soulful redemption. None of this occurred in Parade. And I think Passion actually failed because there simply isn't a large enough American audience of people mature enough to admit their own self-conscious insecurities it requires to empathize with Fosca. I remember all too well when I was young and clung desperatly to someone who didn't want me simply because I thought I would never find anyone else. I've grown up now, but the memory is enough to identify with Fosca. You have to be pretty self-confident to allow yourself that kind of identification. That was the genius of the show.

I don't believe so much as looking back as learning from the past. There will always be anomolies on Broadway. Who'd have thought that Smokey Joe's and Oh Calcutta would have had such long runs (for different reasons)? I'm all for shows that can entertain as well as educate, but one of the wonderful things about musical theatre is its diversity.

I think you made one really remarkable point in both our favors - "it's my belief that the musical seems to have lost touch with what it does best--entertainment with an idea, celebrating our humanity with intelligence and feeling." I don't think it has lost that touch at all. Each show has different doses of the three ingrediants you mentioned. This is the wonderful diversity. Each show has its own recipe depending on the taste it wants to achieve. Mamma Mia may lack in intelligence, but manages to keep its humanity with a dash of emotion. What's more human than three middle-aged women reminiscing about their youth or a young woman desperate to know the identity of her father before her wedding? I think some musicals lack craftmanship (just as some of them have since the birth of Broadway), or soul, but rarely both.

I do think the producers and critics definitely try to raise the bar with the most prominent theatrical artists, when in fact, the bar is itself is art's biggest enemy. They want push for Sondheim to compete against himself, which is what I think is illustrated in Bounce. The essence of any art form is its self-innovation and lack of boundaries in its evolution. This is one of the reasons I get upset about some of these boards. The musical theatre "fans" who show a lack of respect towards the work by immaturely bashing shows simply because they don't like it or because it is popular. I didn't like Phantom of the Opera or The Producers, but I can still respect the work that went into it and admire it's individual parts even if i didn't like the whole.

No, I don't think the world was holding its breath for an ABBA musical. Or for Les Miserables, or Urinetown for that matter. The audience wants to be stimulated, be it intellectually or emotionally. Mamma Mia doesn't attempt to make you weep with empathy, but celebrate in its joy. And it has done so for millions.

The new writers are definitely trying to make an impression and I believe will do so eventually. But it takes some trial and error. LaChiusa and Guettel have shown musical brilliance, but lack emotion (I'll see what he does with A Light in the Piazza). Jason Robert Brown came close with Parade, but the show was too heavy for your average tourist and lacked warmth (uh oh....LuPone moment....Where is the Warmth?). I think he's got it in him, as displayed in some of Songs For a New World.

In the old-fashioned musical comedy vein, I personally would like to see something more original come along. Rather than staging a popular film, why not go back to books or forgotten plays? Or even.....an ORIGINAL story that could still be silly and fun and include tons of tap dancing? Rodgers and Hammerstein may have been the kings of melodrama, but they did employ innovative devices in their shows. Not to mention hummable tunes.

Back to the original topic and how to tie it all in:

Assassins - hit or miss? It will have merits and flaws just like any other show. Sondheim and Coleman remain the two most versatile composers in Broadway repetoire, so why try to compare this show with any other Sondheim work? Why make a man compete against himself? I still think he is absolutely brilliant even if I hated Follies and Bounce and respect his desire to continue his work despite the critics, audiences, and message-board flamers. Whether or not it works is anyone's guess. Who'd have thought musicals involving serial killing (Threepenny Opera), cannibalism (Sweeney Todd), historic tragedy (Titanic), or pee (duh) be so popular?
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

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