August: Osage County -- A Soap Opera?- Page 4

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 9:56pm

To be a noble mother I think you'd have to have the goal of nourishing, educating, caring for your children rather than just attempting to control, dominate and viciously injure them psychologically.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:09pm

But some mothers don't know they are doing that. And we only get references to their past. We don't get all of the in between stuff. I look back on my childhood which included violence, lots of arguing, etc. But I still look at the source of all of that as a person who had good intentions and was actually good to their kids. Maybe not emotionally but in other ways. There was a side that just couldn't be controlled. And I was at that gathering of family I mentioned in my last post.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:17pm

While that is certainly that some mothers are as you describe, we need to look at the actions of the mother in this play to see what is noble about them. I can't think of anything noble she did during the play. In fact at the end she goes into a completely new line indicating all she cares about is getting the money so it's obvious she didn't care about the husband or his suicide, either. I can't find anything constituting a tragic heroic figure in her.

"And I was at that gathering of family I mentioned in my last post."

What gathering of which family? Your own, the one the play is representing, or a gathering of people connected to the family in the play that you met after seeing the show? Updated On: 12/16/07 at 10:17 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:26pm

My family.

I wasn't what she "did" during the play. it was all underlying. I gleened it from the dialoug and the situation and the personalities of each character.

If you didn't see it or you haven't realized it by now, you won't get what I got from it. I found it to be a show that takes time to seep in.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:34pm

You don't have underlying nobility in chopping your kids to ribbons being mean to them.

Actions of a noble tragic figure are obvious in a play.

A noble action in the play is when Charles defends his son Little Charles from the meanness of his mother.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 10:55pm

AS I said in a few posts back, it is not all layed out onstage for you to see. That's what I liked about the play, there are things you knew or felt without them having to be layed out for you in an action or dialoug. I really don't think you are following me. I have explained this a few times but you don't seem to be getting what I am trying to tell you about how I, and others, found this to be a wonderful show full of layers, and all the things I and a few others got from the play. Not saying you have to get them, but we did. And no amount of description or explanation from me or anyone else is going to make you like this show or understand what we got from this wonderful play!

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 11:11pm

I understand that, uncageg.

I thought you were agreeing with the idea of the mother as a tragic heroine in drama and asking what actions in the play you were using to support that dramatic theory.

If you don't mean it as a dramatic theory then we are not talking the same concept. It was an idea bkonbroadway initiated as theory to support craft toward a well-made play.

It's fine if you just think things in the play reminded you of your family and were not proposing a dramatic tragic figure. Updated On: 12/16/07 at 11:11 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 11:21pm

That's not what I just think. There were aspects and situations that reminded me of my family as it does with other people I have talked to who have seen it. Again, you are not getting what I am saying and I really don't feel I need to explain what I got from this show to you any further. Again sorry you didn't like the show. It happens. Glad you like Seafarer and I hope to see it.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 11:33pm

"Just think" was only referring to your response not being part of the "tragic heroine" theory.

I understand that Osage reminded you of your family and resonated with you for that reason.

It will be interesting to hear how or if you like The Seafarer.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 11:43pm

Updated On: 12/16/07 at 11:43 PM

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/16/07 at 11:58pm

I believe you, and if you want to mention what else in Osage resonated with you that you haven't yet covered, by all means do as there was no intention to limit its resonance with you.

I was just trying to see what actions were proposed to support a tragic heroine dramatic theory argument as part of structure that might separate it from soap opera. No big deal. We'll see what bkonbroadway may come up with.

If you think about it, I'm sure soap operas resonate with people, too, which is why they stay on TV.

[bkonbroadway]

Posted: 12/17/07 at 1:08am

It could be possible in this theory that her heroic or noble actions did take place before the inciting incident. She was raised poor, as was the father. They both gave up their dreams and aspirations to make a better life for their families. These things then turned on Voilet when her daughters did have better childhoods but seemed ungreatful and bitter toward her. However if the question is what actions were heroic or noble DURING the play, that's a bit harder. She probably thought it noble to keep her mouth shut about the affair the whole time...but after her breakdown began, she let the cat out of the bag. However, encouraging her younger daughter to dress better and find a boyfriend (though annoying) was noble because she knew all along what was going on. She also silently forgave her sister and her husband for their affair. She knew about Bev's separation from her husband but didn't let on, as to let them pretend to be together and possibly work it out. I think she was trying to help everyone in her own screwed up ways. And remember, through all of this she was dying of cancer. But her pride did not let her come to terms with this, or her drug addiction, marital problems, etc. Therefore her tragic flaw led to her downfall and "death." If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/17/07 at 2:26am

Well bkonbroadway, I tell ya, I don't see it, but I HAVE to give you an A+ for trying!

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/17/07 at 10:43am

bkon, thank you. Those are some of the things I was thinking when I said that some things were not layed out for you. It was all there. I got it.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:53pm

Osage doesn't even make Brantley's best ten plays of the year. I notice that The Seafarer did. He mentions Osage in passing but it is not in the list.

He apparently needs more than fast-paced entertainment, too, to consider a show a great drama.
Brantley's Top Ten Plays

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:36pm

I really don't care if it made his list. it made mine, and that's all that matters to me.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:49am

Good back and forth about TV cliche versus a mythic background comparing Osage with a genuine drama.

Hmm, at the end it says John Lahr, who is a true man of theatre, thinks the Emperor has no clothes on this one as I did. I will also try to find the Lahr review (New Yorker) if I can.
Osage discussion