Broadway Pulse: First Newsday, Now Bloomberg 'Reviews' SPIDER-MAN- Page 2

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:06am

Disneyland Magic Man -- OK, let's pretend that the website and all marketing materials say "NOW IN PREVIEWS."

You're a tourist and you hardly ever go see theatre. You enjoyed the Spider-Man movies, so you want to check out this show. You go to the website and buy tickets in advance. Remember, the website clears says "NOW IN PREVIEWS" and let's assume that you, the tourist, have read those words. You buy the tickets. You go to the theater and it happened to be the first preview (we all know what happened during that performance). You are BAFFLED and don't know what the hell is going on. "Why are they stopping?" you ask a patron sitting next to you. "It's a preview," says the patron. "What's that?" you ask.

See where this is going? Even if it were to say "NOW IN PREVIEWS" that still doesn't inform the ticketbuyer what that means. And again, it's not just SPIDER-MAN, **ALL** shows do that.

You should take all your energy about wanting SPIDER-MAN to close and instead focus it on wanting producers to properly inform the public what a Preview is.

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:07am

"You seem to have a problem listening to people who know better (that would be everyone on Broadway World)"

I do? Well, I guess the press has no idea what they're doing either. They should all listen to you!

Except, no, they're feeling the need to expose this show for all that it isn't. Which is anything redeeming.

[willheim2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:07am

just keeping it real, my sis and i are seeing spidey with or kids next week, i am in the music biz, more like tv side. when we bought our tix i felt the show was mainly done, just tweakage left. it seems like this is a bit more. 8 tix aat 160 each. that's a lot of cake. plus airlibe fare fron los angeles to ny and hotel. i am glad i can read about te show here and te reviews. my sister is unaware of the eative buzz, even though her friend works on it. seems like an outated broadway tradition. or not outated so much as being used in a way not intended wen i origiaed.

[willheim2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:12am

pls excuze my typing here and above, the damn ipad is always weird to type on. capn hook has my situation entirely.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:14am

You want SPIDER-MAN to close because it is bad and it is hurting people? What is your case for MAMMA MIA! being open, then? That show is bad and it hurt me! The amygdale in the limbic system of my brain STILL haven't recuperated...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:16am

He's like Bush and Cheney wanting to invade Iraq. First it was weapons of mass destruction. Then it was to get the dictator. Then it was etc etc.

With DMM, he wants the show closed because it's risky! Because it's bad (he hasn't seen it but he saw Shrek)!

It's because he has a violently sexist reaction to the name Julie Taymor.

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:16am

Hook,

I agree with the last part of what you said. As much as I hate Spider-Man. And I hate it a lot, I think that ALL Broadway producers need to revisit this idea of a Broadway preview.

Shows that push back opening to avoid getting reviewed deserve scrutiny, not just Spider-Man. They shouldn't be marketing the show as an open product during preview periods, that's just shady business and marketing strategies that unfortunately people buy into. And ticket prices should be considerably less. I also, personally, feel that an insert in the Playbill giving preview audience members a chance to voice what they liked/disliked via the show's official website would benefit as well. Movies take comment cards during screenings and I've never understood why Broadway almost always doesn't care what preview audiences have to say about the show unless it's harshly negative and they fear closing early. Why invite audiences in to see your unfinished work then? Unless it's all about making as much money as you can, but at that point, they shouldn't be previews, shows should open cold and be subject to the press. If a preview period is a sexploitation for the creative team and just them, there's no point in having an audience. That's what tech rehearsals are for.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:16am

"I want Spider-Man shut down because it's hurting people and is a bad show."

God you really do take stupidity to a whole other level. So you don't like the show....big deal, i hate Phantom of the Opera but don't think that should be closed down. As for hurting people its a highly tech show that has sadly suffered some injuries, much like Starlight did when that first opened (over twice the amount Spider Man has), should that have been shut down?, one actor in that was unable to work for over a year due to the injury they suffered. You are a little child who has jumped on a media story and run with it whilst knowing nothing.

"Ghost should definitely designate what previews are and not. Just like any show. If they're not going public that the show is in a non-complete state, it deserves to be reviewed."

Are you playing dumb or is it an act? ALL SHOWS HAVE THE SAME THING ON THEIR WEBSITE. Spiderman more than any show has put the info out in press releases that it is in previews.You seem to think that this show has done something wrong, do you not see other shows?
Here is Million Dollar Quartet for London, no mention of previews
http://milliondollarquartet.co.uk/tickets.asp
When Flashdance went in to previews the site said 'Now Playing' again no mention of previews, all shows do the same thing because the public who are not theatre savy have no idea what a preview is.


"If producers want to change things and ignore what previews were created for, and all aspects of that, fine, but then shows should open cold and be ready for the press to come in and judge them.."

What are you talking about?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:18am

Any reason at all to shut down Spidey, as long as it's shut down, will be the only thing that satisfies DMM's Taymor rage.

He needs a therapist.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:21am

" I also, personally, feel that an insert in the Playbill giving preview audience members a chance to voice what they liked/disliked via the show's official website would benefit as well. Movies take comment cards during screenings and I've never understood why Broadway almost always doesn't care what preview audiences have to say about the show unless it's harshly negative and they fear closing early. Why invite audiences in to see your unfinished work then?"

Messege boards like this tell the creative teams all they need to know. Movies put score cards out during test screenings that very few see except for a select group. Shows also have people who re in the audiences listening to what is said during the interval and outgoing as well as hearing audience response (applause etc)

Updated On: 12/27/10 at 12:21 AM

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:23am

"Messege boards like this tell the creative teams all they need to know."

I'm pretty sure that none of Spider-Man's tourist demographic is voicing anything on BroadwayWorld.com.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:23am

"He needs a therapist."

The Therapist won't take his calls.

And wait, DMM have you seen the show?

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:27am

"I'm pretty sure that none of Spider-Man's tourist demographic is voicing anything on BroadwayWorld.com"

All they need to hear is what people are saying on messege boards, Twitter etc and that points them in the right direction. I don't think people understand that boards like thrse are vital during previews.And if any Director etc tells you they never look at places like this during previews they are lying. As for Tourists as i said they look and listen to what is said in the venue as well during Interval and Outgoing.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:31am

"Unless it's all about making as much money as you can"

BINGO! YOU GOT IT RIGHT! BROADWAY *IS* ABOUT MAKING AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN! BROADWAY IS A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.

SPIDER-MAN did not push back Opening to avoid getting reviewed, it pushed back its Opening at first due to financial reasons, then for technical reasons, and then a third time for both technical and artistic reasons (working on the book now that they have seen it in front of an audience).

You're right, DMM. Ticket prices should be less. But they won't, the producers charge the highest prices they can get. And mostly, the make the prices that high because they intend to discount. This makes the ticketbuyer think they are getting a deal. It's called a price point strategy. As a producer, I think it's smart. As a consumer, it stinks.

You're right again, DMM. Producers should not trick the audience into thinking that a Preview is a frozen Performance. But I've covered this already, and you agreed with me, so why did you bring it up again?

As for having an insert in Playbills seeking opinions, some shows do this. Most do not. I can't think of a recent Broadway show that did. However, the Creative Team does sit or stand in the house during previews to see how the audience is responding. Another user already touched on this -- what's the point of buying paper to insert into Playbills when you have online message boards you can read for free?

Finally, SPIDER-MAN isn't the only show to have technical mishaps during Previews. Remember THE LITTLE MERMAID? WICKED? TITANIC? SUNSET BOULEVARD? LES MISERABLES? THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA?

[Wishing Only Wounds]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:31am

WAIT WAIT WAIT. You haven't even seen the show live?

Get out. Now.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:32am

I think basically there should be a moratorium on people who have heard bootleg recordings of a show in previews makin statements that they'd like people to think are informed.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:38am

Im more convinced than ever that DMM is a 14 year old with way to much time on their hands.

Also DMM if you are so bothered by them fooling the public and ripping them off as regards to previews then think about this.

You took great glee in the fact that it got reviewed during previews, with reviews out there it makes it look like the show is open and is out of previews.

I have bootlegs etc and ive heard the recording of Spiderman but you will not find one post where i praise the show or bash it based on an audio recording of a very early preview. I could understand if you had seen a really great DVD Bootleg of a performance after opening, but a crappy audio of a first preview....gimmie a break.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:42am

DMM, I made that mistake twice. I got an audio bootleg of GREY GARDENS, listened to the songs, and HATED it. Then it came to Broadway, I saw it and the songs in context, and LOVED LOVED LOVED LOVED the show. The same happened with Disney's AIDA. I heard the CD and LOVED it but when I finally saw the tour, I was much less enthusiastic about the show.

You have to SEE IT before you can JUDGE IT. And that is why I made the vow to never again learn anything about a show before going to see it. I see every film and piece of theater as cold as I can. I do not intentionally watch clips or trailers or listen to samplings. I want my visit to the work to be as close to 100% of an organic, unpredictable response as possible. That way, there are zero expectations and you can truly have a legitimate reaction to it. [I find that movie trailers nowadays ruin most movies. I know the ending before going to pay for the ticket!]

So for you to come here and post evaluations on a show that you have not even seen is, to me, CRIMINAL. How DARE you! If you see the show and afterward want to compare it to feces, then be my guest. But to prematurely make such strong opinions is to spit on this very artform you think you care so much about.

Updated On: 12/27/10 at 12:42 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:42am

"I have bootlegs etc and ive heard the recording of Spiderman but you will not find one post where i praise the show or bash it based on an audio recording of a very early preview."


Because only an idiot would do that.

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 12:44am

"You took great glee in the fact that it got reviewed during previews, with reviews out there it makes it look like the show is open and is out of previews."

You miss the point. They are making it look like it is open and not in previews already, therefore it deserves to have the press come in a review. I don't care if every Broadway show does it, they shouldn't. Not just Spider-Man.

Is it dangerous if the press decide they can come whenever they want? Not really. If the production's not marketing the show as in previews, why shouldn't the press come? The first review that came out put it nicely, "Why are the press the only ones not allowed to see the bride before the wedding night?" And why exactly if the show is marketing itself as "NOW PLAYING ON BROADWAY" and "The reviews are in!" and charging regular ticket prices?

Broadway producers have decided to manipulate the Broadway Preview period to their own benefit. The press is finally getting wise.

[sergio_27]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 1:00am

I don't get why you keep replying to DMM as if he were going to change his mind or produce a coherent argument. Wouldn't it be better to just ignore him as with any other troll instead of making every Spiderman thread about him? That's just my opinion.

@CapnHook: I deeply regret listening to the Wicked soundtrack over and over again, and watching clips on Youtube. When I finally saw the show on Broadway it wasn't special at all. I'm sad that may happen with Avenue Q if I ever see it. I learned my lesson.

On another note, I have a question: what does 'frozen' mean? Once a show is officially opened, couldn't it be changed to be improved? Is there any 'rule' against that?

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 1:04am

"On another note, I have a question: what does 'frozen' mean? Once a show is officially opened, couldn't it be changed to be improved? Is there any 'rule' against that?"

No official rule. Shows have changed after opening in the past. Sometimes because a new star enters the cast. Sometimes because another production integrates something new and it works really well.

Ex. Poppins cut "Temper, Temper" during the tour. At one point, all productions adopted the change.

Les Mis often cut things to shorten the show time. Before it closed they managed to keep the production under 3 hours. For the first years it was open, that was not the case.

"A Change In Me" was added to Beauty and the Beast for Tony Braxton and was subsequently kept as well.


Updated On: 12/27/10 at 01:04 AM

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 1:12am

"Frozen" is the term designated to a show during its introductory performances (aka "Preview period"). Generally speaking, during this time, changes can occur in the writing, direction, choreography or design. The goal is to have the show be "frozen" before Opening Night -- meaning that no further changes are planned.

Being "frozen" means that the creative team have deemed the show ready to be reviewed because no further changes will occur that will severely impact an audience's response to it.

However, there is no "rule" saying that the creative team cannot make alterations to the show once it is open. Sometimes, changed can occur as early as the very next performance after its Opening. Sometimes, changes can occur after 10 years of being the same! Just this year, Julie Taymor and the folks at Disney approved severe changes to THE LION KING. They cut an entire musical number, in addition to other deletions.

Years after WICKED opened, they altered a moment during the opening sequence. There used to be a giant twirling hat on stage. Now there is a green witch projection.

AVENUE Q had a contest to change the lyric of "GEORGE BUSH! is only for now" but decided no other lyric was as funny, so that change was never made.

What "frozen" TRULY means, nowadays, is that Tony Voters can see it because each voter would be seeing the same show. It's equally about the Tony Voters as it is about the Critics, if not more.

[sergio_27]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 1:30am

Thanks to both. I had heard about the changes made on Wicked after the tour and some of the international productions opened, and I also noticed that some of the lyrics were different from the OBC recording when I saw next to normal.

I guess they wouldn't change significantly the book or the score this season, at least not before the Tony awards. I hope, though, they (Marvel, Disney, Stan Lee, anyone other than Julie Taymor) could do something in the future to make this a better show. It's a shame to waste all this technology on a book that may have been doomed from the beginning.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/27/10 at 1:36am

That's why I loathe SPIDER-MAN so much. If you're going to put $65 million into a show, you could at least put it into a well-written show!

Between last year and this year when the show was postponed due to financial reasons, WHY DIDN'T THE PRODUCERS PICK UP THE SCRIPT AND NOTICE HOW AWFUL IT WAS THEN? But Taymor is still working on it. Most of the problems were in Act 2, and that is what she specifically stated she is fixing. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt -- and believe me, there is strong doubt -- and wait until they think they fix it before seeing it again and making a final judgment.

And I can say all this, DMM, because I actually saw it live!