Can Off-Broadway Be Fixed?- Page 2

[tourboi]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 2:35pm

Off-Broadway isn't dead, commercially. But it's certainly in the emergency room.

The main reason for this is that between the unions, and the rising theatre costs, you can do your musical Off-Broadway and spend 1 Million to put it up, then have little (if any) cash left over for significant print advertising to get the word out and draw audiences. Even ALTAR BOYZ, which is one of the FEW NEW Off Broadway shows to recoup in recent years, has a hard time drawing them in.

Why spend 1 Mil to go Off-Broadway and have a rediculously low chance of recoupment, when you can raise an additional million and go to a small B'way house where you're Tony eligable?

Off-Broadway needs help, but that help needs to come from theatre owners, periodicals (maybe a different advertising scale for Off-bway vs. Broadway?), and to a lesser extent the unions.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 2:44pm

"It is currently very difficult for a conventional musical or play to turn a profit off-Broadway."

When WAS it common for a "conventional" musical or play to turn a profit off-Broadway or to become a long run hit? I always thought of off Broadway mostly being about musicals or plays which weren't conventional, but rather those that had a "gimmick", were "cutting edge" for their time, or something else unusual.

I realize this whole argument is kind of difficult as NOTHING in theatre today is the same as it was say 30 years ago, so it's pretty hard to compare apples to apples. But when I think back of famous off Broadway hits, all I can think of were as "quirky" or "gimmicky" in their day as the ones mentioned are today -- actually in most cases even more so.

[EugLoven]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 3:02pm

I wasn't aware anything was broken Off-Broadway that NEEDED to be fixed! As one who sees about 15 off-bway shows a month, I'd say things are running smoothly, creatively and positively. I know if I want to see something special, innovative and unique (no matter how long-lasting), I look at the shows blocks away from The Rialto.

Ain't nothin' to be fixed, dahlin!

[sweeneytodd2]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 3:16pm

To clarify, by "conventional" I meant a show thats focused on storytelling, rather than a concept such as a Christian boy band concert. Little Shop of Horrors was a quirky and cutting edge show that did not rely on a gimmick, and at one point was very successful off-Broadway.

[tourboi]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 3:30pm

Eug, things aren't as smooth as they appear. Look at the shows that come and go so frequently/quickly off-Broadway. Each one of those shows costs a minimum of 500K, and most near 1 Million. And almost 95% of them close at a loss.

[Judas]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 6:39pm

For one, we're not debating artistic merit. I'm talking strictly financial. Eug, how many of those shows that you saw were in subscription houses? How many were open-ended runs? There's the problem. And Patash, all of those shows are proven hits and have been running since the dawn of time! Blue Man Group is a huge success, but I'm talking within the last couple of years, hell, the last 8 years. Shows ope and close so quickly.

[Patash]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 9:36pm

I just get more and more lost with some of the ideas being expressed here.

A Christian boy band is a gimmick, but a giant puppet of a man eating plant is NOT a gimmick? Scratching my head here.

[Judas]

Posted: 8/2/08 at 11:36pm

The overall show of "Little Shop" is not a gimmick. It's a book musical. Altar Boyz is a basically a concert - that's a gimmick. That's like saying that Phantom's gimmick is that they have a giant chandelier that hangs over the audience.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 1:54am

I agree that there are a lot of shows on Broadway that could have been off Broadway hits 10-11 years ago had they opened off Broadway at that time.

I think that gone are the days when a show can be a commercial hit off Broadway. I think the last show that was and will be able to be a commerical hit off Broadway is Alter Boyz. Blue Man Group and stop are things that are known internationally so it is easy for them to sell tickets. But, if the market were different there wouldn't be this need to rush off Broadway musicals to Broadway. I think that if the market were different you would see something like Adding Machine play an open run off Broadway because there is no financial problem in doing so. Instead they had to go with an limited run.

[Judas]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 11:24am

How far is New World Stages from Midtown/Times Square?

[tourboi]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 3:04pm

It's on 50th between 8th and 9th. Two blocks from Broadway.

[Marinacat]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 7:03pm

I thought this might be an appropriate place to reference an article in today's Newsday:

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/stage/ny-ffthe5782833aug03,0,226647.column

[sondheimfan2]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 7:15pm

bump

[Patash]

Posted: 8/3/08 at 9:00pm

"The overall show of "Little Shop" is not a gimmick. It's a book musical. Altar Boyz is a basically a concert - that's a gimmick."

OK, I get it now. Yes. I see -- a concert or review -- not a book musical -- sort of like Jacques Brel is Alive. . . that ran over 4 years about 40 years ago. Yes. I get it now.

Meanwhile, mind mentioning a few of the many long ago Off Broadway shows there were just conventional plays -- that ran for a couple years? You know. Like the ones that couldn't happen today without moving to Broadway.