Caroline, Or Change: It's Official!- Page 2

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/04 at 9:55pm

Ah yes, the old reliable Iowa Ticket Line-Up As Artistic Merit Indicator. God almighty. Just what ARE the standards you allude to when you say you're "for" a "better" Broadway????

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/15/04 at 9:59pm

Just using your metrics.

Off for some real culsha now.

Bulldog

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/04 at 10:01pm

::Holding thumb and index finger in "L" shape to forehead::

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 12:23am

"It never goes to the best show, it goes to the most marketable one."

True in most cases--but look at Passion vs. Beauty and the Beast.

And, BB--please see this musical before trashing it any further. Please? I'm sure Mozart should be chided for writing recitative as well?

[tpdc]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 1:30am

I like PASSION and would rather sit through it 8 times a week over BEAUTY & THE BEAST, but the year PASSION won those were the only two viable shows and I think it was anti-Disney sentiment that sent the award PASSION's way more than anything else.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 8:57am

tpdc: Do you remember the irony about the arrival of BEAUTY AND THE BEAST? The year or so before, in the Lloyd Webber climate Times critic Frank Rich had bemoaned the lack of home-grown American musicals. He made pointed remarks that the "best broaday musical is a cartoon--BEAUTY AND THE BEAST." He went on the rave about its anti-mega musical rewards. Then, Disney produced it as a stage show, the ultimate corporate bull in an artistic china shop, offending unions right/left trying to cut corners, and the backlash was intense and immediate.

But every time I hear it lumped in with the CATS=death of b'way discussion, I am reminded: BEAUTY leaped on stage as the Anti-CATS, or at least the antedote to the slick, sung-through "event" musical. Poor Ashman and Menkin, now dissed as slick sell-outs, were fresh from off-b'way (LITTLE SHOP) and once supposed to be the "saviors" of the dying American genre.

Updated On: 1/16/04 at 08:57 AM

[StarUsher]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 12:22pm

Maybe this is slightly off topic but I was thinking about this while reading the discussions about the types of musicals in the Tony race this year and how it reflects the whole art vs. commerce argument. Isn't there enough room on Broadway, as big and diverse as it is, for the light, somewhat cheesy and silly but incredibly fun musicals and the serious, dramatic, thought provoking pieces?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 12:42pm

StarUsher - YES, YES, YES - Excellent point. There IS room for every kind of show.

As for Tony/Grammy/Oscar/Emmy Awards - I don't like what they stand for especially when they always pit oranges against apples. They're meaningless as to artistic merit. Artists don't enter into a project as a contest. It's sad how they're pitted against one another in a contest every year.

Being a past voter of one of these awards, I'm also shocked at the lack of expertise that many voters have in the categories thay are trusted to know something about.

StarUsher - There's room for everyone and everything.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 1:19pm

I second that! Theatre should definitely be diverse. And, that is particularly why I can't stand how some musicals are deemed less than worthy whether they are popular or "too edgy".

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 1:29pm

Should there be room for every type of musical? From the frothy to the thought-provoking.

Absolutely...BUT as long as they're well written. Just because I think MILLIE and MAMA MIA are mediocre shows doesn't mean I can't appreciate that which is light and airy. Look at shows like ANNIE, SHE LOVES ME and HELLO, DOLLY! Well written, well produced and yet they do not make serious dramatic or intellectual demands on an audience.

[tpdc]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 2:11pm

Auggie, I do remember all the praise by Rich of the film of BEAUTY and all the politics of the stage version. I don't think it lost entirely due to anti-Disney sentiment. I think Ashman not being around for the stage transfer hurt the show. It was his sensibility that kept the film version and the other works with Menken perfectly balanced. The musical's book combined with the awful direction just killed most of the charm the film had.

There should be a place on Broadway for just the various kinds of shows we have this year (WICKED, WONDERFUL TOWN, AVENUE Q, CAROLINE)to succeed. It would be great if economics were such that even a less than top drawer show like TABOO could run for the season.

Robbie, while no heavyweight musical like CAROLINE, if SHE LOVES ME is done right, it's not just froth. It can be a very moving show because of all the intellectual underpinnings, aside from the fact it is so well written as you note.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 2:17pm

Oh...absolutely SHE LOVES me can be incredibly moving. So can ANNIE, so can HOW TO SUCCEED (in its own way). Something being frothy or romantic (as opposed to heady) does not preclude it from being moving. That's why I hate when people say light shows should be on Broadway and then point to MILLIE or MAMA MIA. I not only found them poorly written, but completely unmoving.

Of course, we can have poorly written 'serious' shows like MARIE CHRISTINE which have added to the cause of the 'fluff' show.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/16/04 at 3:37pm

Let's not forget that Jeanine Tesori won the Drama Desk Award for Twelfth Night and the Drama Critics Circle Award for Violet.