Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
#0Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 9:49pm
I was listening to my Caroline, or Change recording today and was reminded of something I first noticed when I saw the show off-Broadway. Rose, Noah’s stepmother and the lady of the house, calls Caroline "Carolyn." I thought the reason was clear when I first watched it: To emphasize that there is some level at which Caroline is inconsequential to Rose. Even though she would deny it if asked, Rose, consciously or not, sees Caroline as inferior—-it is absolutely part of Rose’s makeup. Although Rose seems almost obsessed with some aspects of Caroline’s personal life, she hasn’t even learned to pronounce her name correctly.
Sooo…I figure I’ve got it, right, and I think that it is an effective way to subtly illuminate issues of race and class and social standing in the story.
Here’s the catch, though. Noah, who worships Caroline, and clearly refers to her as Caroline the first time he speaks of her, also sometimes pronounces her name as Carolyn. This is clear on the recording. Has anyone else noticed it? I assume that it is intentional, as I can’t imagine that if it was a mistake, it went unnoticed. Why does Noah sometimes mispronounce her name????? I found this so interesting. Thoughts?
#1re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 10:14pmdo a search, this has been discussed at great length in the past.
#2re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 10:30pmActually, I did search through about 500 "Caroline" threads and didn't find this topic. If you could point me to the thread(s), that would be great.
Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#3re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 10:40pm
Doesn't he call her Carolyn towards the end, when he's really mad at her?
And yeah, this was covered before, but I believe you when you say you can't find it. It's kind of obscure.
Updated On: 4/7/05 at 10:40 PM
VIETgrlTerifa
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/18/04
#4re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 11:04pm
Noah also calls her Carolyn in Roosevelt Petrucious Coleslaw.
Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#5re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 11:22pmWhen he's fantasizing about being part of her family, right? Maybe because his whole part in that song is the ridiculous impositions his imagination makes on her family.
VIETgrlTerifa
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/18/04
#6re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/7/05 at 11:26pm
I think that's it Plum. Rose calling Caroline "Carolyn" can be construed as Rose not caring enough to notice that everyone else calls her Caroline or, if she does notice, is assuming that Caroline doesn't care whether or not her name is pronounced correctly.
The second part goes with Noah assuming things about Caroline's family.
TonyInATL
Stand-by Joined: 8/28/04
#8re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:29am
My theory is that, given the inflection in his voice when he sings that "Carolyn", he is mocking Rose and her pronunciation of it, because if I'm not mistaken, that's really the only time he pronounces it that way.
"They talk about how my mama died
they talk about my tragedy
they wish that they could take me in
and I could live with "Carolyn""
Updated On: 4/8/05 at 01:29 AM
Jazzysuite82
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/6/05
#9re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:38amI don't understand. Why would he be mocking Rose. He's talking about Caroline and her family wanting him to come live there with them. Rose isn't even a thought to this kid.
#10re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:45amI never thought about Noah saying it (I kinda forgot, actually) but I always thought that Rose's reasoning was because she was a Notherner and simply pronounces it differently than the rest. Plus Noah's mother was a Notherner as well, so he's grown up hearing it said both ways. Being as close as he is with Caroline, I now see it as a respect issue with Noah and a "I don't know any better" issue with Rose. I do not feel she's being cruel-spirited.
TonyInATL
Stand-by Joined: 8/28/04
#11re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:55am
Because at this point in the show, he loathes her!
"I hate her
I hate her
with all my heart"
eslgr8
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/20/04
#12re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 2:23am
Chris, you've asked a question I've wondered about many times. I think it's pretty obvious that Rose calls her Carolyn because she hasn't ever really LISTENED to the way Caroline pronounces her name. (Remember, Caroline spelled with -ine can be prounced either way.) On the other hand, I've read the explanations here and I still am not sure why suddenly Noah calls pronounces her name differently that one time. As to Chip's response to your original posting, it was rude and uncalled for. I think it would have been almost impossible for you to have located a previous thread on this topic, or even to assume that there had been such a thread in the first place. Plus, since that time, new people have come on the board and have new things to offer. Had Chip wanted to be of help rather than just criticize, he would have done what others have in a similar situation and located the thread himself and pasted it into his post.
Updated On: 4/8/05 at 02:23 AM
#13re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 3:19am
Well said! I agree, every time I listen to the recording I wonder the same thing.
Also: Thank you for your kind PM about DOUBT, it was very interesting and helpful. It is much appreciated 
#14re: Caroline, or Carolyn, or Change
Posted: 4/8/05 at 9:26am
Thanks, guys. Interesting theories all. There are so many rich, subtle layers to this show and it's score. It's a different journey every time I listen to it.
edit: spelling
Videos