Carousel - a discussion

I was in Provincetown recently, visiting my best friend who is performing there. The seaside setting and the appearances of clam beds during low tide made us think of the glorious musical CAROUSEL.

We began discussing what many consider to be the most controversial moment in the piece: when Louise asks Julie Jordan if it's possible to be hit by someone and have it feel like a kiss. Julie answers affirmatively. There are some that feel this is almost a justification for spousal abuse...others, misogynistic. My friend and I couldn't help but feel that, in many ways, it's the most honest moment of the show. Truth isn't always pretty. It's the reason I love the show so much (that, and the glorious score).

I'm interested in other opinions on this topic. Please feel free to use other morally ambiguous moments in musicals to further the discussion along.

---

I see it less as a justification. More as an example that love can twist certain truths. Or even how one views expressions of love. Billy can only express love through violence because that is all he has known. And Julie appears to have accepted that. Has anyone read Molnar's Liliom to see if theres more to the book than we see onstage?

Not only spousal abuse, but Billy's suicide. I was in a production of this show and the director had Billy being shot by one of the policemen.

Carousel is one of my favorite shows and it was very difficult to keep my composure during the final scene in both rehearsal and actual performances.

---

I don't think that it's any more controversial than Billy's suicide.

But I've often wondered the same thing about "The Honeymooners". Ralph is always threatening to belt Alice. Did that make it ok?

---

Like many R&H shows the score soars above the book. I really respect them for trying daring and controversial themes in a time when most people did not want to see them, the execution is often clumsy and melodramatic. So I adore the score, but have to pass on a full production.

But I think in recent years, Mimi coming back from the dead is right up there with the most offensive things to make it into a serious musical.

---

AGREED!

I was pretty moved at the end of RENT...but I would have been devastated had the bitch remained dead.

---

Rodgers & Hammerstein knew very well that Julie's dialogue in this scene was controversial. Aside from it being faithful to the original play "Liliom," it would get people angry and get them talking. They wanted it, and invited it in an era when spousal abuse was often covered up, lied about or glossed over. They put it right in the middle of a popular musical for all to see (and hear).

As much as some people like to lable their shows as "corny" or "fluff" they never backed down on controversy. "South Pacific" has one of the best songs ever written (to this day) about racism and tolerance: "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught." They were given advice by many to cut that song out of town, but they refused (saying if you cut that song, you kill the heart of the show---which is true). And while they didn't initally set out to create openly romantic tension between the lead characters in "The King & I," when it was developing naturally during their rehearsal process, it was incouraged. Again, controversy. They were amazing talents and true visionaries. I'm glad people are still discussing their characters and dramatic themes. They would have loved that!

---

Dottie,

I believe the MOOOOOOOOO back to life was the most egregious mistake.

---

I just assumed that Mimi had lost consciousness and they only thought she had died.

I took my cousin to see it, for the first time, a few months ago and Mimi coming back to life was her only complaint.

---

For the Fantastiks, I think they actually wrote a whole other song in place of the Rape song -- and it's in the movie...

As for Carousel -- I'm SHOCKED that modern productions would get rid of that scene - even the movie, and they were ultra-sensitive in those times -- includes the scene. Don't tell me conservatives are running our theaters now....

---

The movie version of Carousel did not work for me. I prefer the stage version better. I liked the production LCT did about 10 years ago.

Updated On: 7/27/05 at 03:38 PM

There is a new song available for "The Fantasticks" called "Abductions." The authors took the perky underscoring from the "Rape Ballet" and put lyrics to it (sample)

Abductions, abductions
Theatrical abductions
Complete with maidens in distress
And fabulous productions!

There is also a slightly altered version of the original song (which can be heard on the cast album of the Japanese tour). Instead of saying, "You can get the rape emphatic/You can get the rape polite", the new lyric goes, "An abduction that's emphatic/An abduction that's polite" etc., etc.) It's up to each production which alternative to take.

As for "Carousel", I abhor the line in question and every production I've seen cuts it. I think it makes Julie out to be both dense and masochistic.

---