Carousel - will there ever be...
Carousel - will there ever be...
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
Carousel - will there ever be...#1
Posted: 12/15/07 at 11:27am
... a note-complete recording of the score in the original Don Walker orchestrations and Trude Rittman dance arrangements? Every recording leaves out major songs or edits them down, or uses new orchestrations. The National Theatre/Lincoln Center recordings both do a decent job of documenting that version's William Brohn orchestrations, but it seems odd that there isn't one complete rendering of the original version.
The original production utilized an orchestra of 40, including an astonishing 22 strings! The string section alone was larger than most of our entire orchestras for Broadway shows these days.
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#2
Posted: 12/15/07 at 6:02pmum I thought West side story had the bigest orchestra.
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#2
Posted: 12/15/07 at 7:53pmI didn't say Carousel had a bigger orchestra than West Side Story - although I believe that it did. It was far more normal to have 25-30 in an orchestra when West Side Story opened.
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#3
Posted: 12/15/07 at 8:12pm
I remember seeing the original production of WEST SIDE STORY at the Winter Garden. The orchestra spilled out of the pit with timpani placed in an orchestra level box. What a sound!
Smaxie, is it possible that Lehman Engel made a studio cast recording of CAROUSEL utilizing the Don Walker orchestrations? Engel made many studio cast recordings of shows in the early 1950's under Goddard Lieberson's producing banner.
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#4
Posted: 12/15/07 at 8:40pm
There is a Lehman Engel studio recording of Carousel with Robert Merrill. But "Stonecutters Cut it On Stone" is omitted, along with the Louise ballet. As in my initial post, there's just isn't an authoritative recording of the original material that gets everything right. I lean toward the '65 recording of the Lincoln Center production with John Raitt, but that leaves out "Stonecutters" AND "Geraniums in the Winder".
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#5
Posted: 12/15/07 at 10:08pm
Smaxie,
I have both the recordings from the Royal National Theatre's production and the '94 Broadway revival and I think with those combined, more or less equals a complete recording. The RNT contains the dance music in "June is Bustin'..." and the Act 2 ballet. Hope this helps.
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#6
Posted: 12/15/07 at 10:50pmI hsve them as well. As I mentioned in my original post, those two recordings document that revival version very well, but with new orchestrations by William David Brohn - and the revival also omitted "Highest Judge of All". I'd still like to have one recording of the show in the original Don Walker orchestrations, with all of the major songs and the original Louise ballet.
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#7
Posted: 12/15/07 at 10:59pm
Oops, sorry Doxie. I read your post but for some reason I didn't retain that you had the London and revival cast recordings.
I also have the studio recording with Samuel Ramey and Barbara Cook, but just checked and the orchestrations are not by Don Walker.
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#8
Posted: 12/15/07 at 11:11pmYes, I have that one as well. Thomas Shepard, the producer of that Samuel Ramey/Barbara Cook recording, was prevented from using the original orchestrations, and it had to be newly orchestrated just for that album. I also recall that the Louise ballet was recorded, but not allowed to be included on the album. And while it includes all of the major numbers, it has a few dicey performances.
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/27/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#9
Posted: 12/15/07 at 11:23pm
If you've got between 50K and 100K to cough up, you can have the CAROUSEL recording of your dreams.
Nettie Fowler
Cape Cod
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#10
Posted: 12/15/07 at 11:48pm
Thanks, Nettie. You always were a busybody.
My point - which seems to be getting lost - is that of all of the R&H masterworks, Carousel lacks a one single definitive wholly satisfying recording, documenting the show's original musical materials. It's not keeping me up nights, and I'm not about to reach for my check book to fund the "Carousel of my dreams," but I still find it odd that when you reach for a recording of Carousel, there's not one particular version that really does the job, where it is well sung and where all of the songs are present.
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/27/05
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#11
Posted: 12/16/07 at 1:44am
Think of how I feel about 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, smaxie.
James Monroe
On the Potomac River
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#12
Posted: 12/16/07 at 2:14am
I directed a production of "Carousel" with a thirty-five piece orchestra. Twelve violins, violas, cellos and TWO double bass (both, if I remember, doubling on tuba). Two flautists and then the reeds. Oh, what an amazing sound. The orchestra books from th R&H Library arrived in a crate. They weighed a ton.
The Carousel Waltz is such an wonderous piece of music. I remember during the orchestra dress rehearsal wanting to do the number a third time and the musical director told me, "You're killing the brass section." The end of the number is all brass and those poo ba****ds were winded when we finally locked the scene.
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#13
Posted: 12/17/07 at 12:48am
CAROUSEL is one of my all-time favorite scores, and you are right: there is no note-complete recording of the original orchestrations.
Robert Russell Bennett did the orchestration of the original Carousel Waltz and You're a Queer One Julie Jordan & Mr. Snow but later in the run Rodgers had these redone by Walker. So only on Decca can you hear some of Bennett's work. The Waltz is abridged and the Mr. Snow segues into the reprise version with the girls’ chorus chiming in. By the time Victor did their studio cast (Robert Merrill) the Walker orchestrations were all that survived. Notice too how the orchestration after the final line of the finale, You'll never walk alone has changed over the years.
The Lincoln Centre cast album is perhaps closes but there are trims in the Waltz scene and as you mentioned a couple of minor songs are omitted.
It's too bad John Yap hasn't done CAROUSEL in his masterworks editions for JAY. He has done a SOUTH PACIFIC and a KING AND I in note-complete 2-CD sets. I think CAROUSEL is more in need of a note-complete recording than either of the others.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
Broadway Star Joined: 8/9/04
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#14
Posted: 12/17/07 at 8:02am
I don't know if you're aware of the amazing restoration of the 40-piece orchestration recently done by Lyric Stage of Irving, Texas. They got an NEA grant specifically for the purpose. It was only done for a few performances, so there might be some unofficial recordings out there. Anyway, I heard it was amazing.
Lyric Stage's Carousel
re: Carousel - will there ever be...#15
Posted: 12/17/07 at 8:16amDancinfan, thanks for posting that. I always hoped that the Kennedy Center in DC would host a Rodgers and Hammerstein festival similar to the one that was done for Sondheim's works a few years ago. As seen with their independent productions of Mame and Carnival! (large orchestra) it would be amazing to hear Carousel, King and I, etc. the way they were originally written.
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