Composer v. Orchestrator

Although I'm sure there are textbook definitions out there, here's how it's always made sense to me, especially when trying to explain to someone.

Think of what the composer does as on the piano. The composer comes up with melodies, chords, and tempos, in piano form. The orchestrator then comes in and decides what instrument in the orchestra gets to play each of those notes. For example, the composer has written a loud chord at the end of the song. The orchestrator then writes that chord out, scored for 3 horns, 5 strings, and percussion.

YAY! Glad it helped. :)

This is a really good question! And there's no easy answer to it, although I think the answers you've gotten are very good.

The problem is that people compose differently. Some are very well trained musicians and can do a lot of the counter-melodies and instrumentation "suggestions" themselves. Others sing into a tape recorder (Mel Brooks) or can only play the piano in one key (Irving Berlin---and it was G-flat major... such a LOVELY key). They needed more help from an orchestrator/arranger than, say, Rodgers or Webber (who often does his own orchestrations).

So the job of the orchestrator can vary widely. They can come up with more complex chord structures, counter-melodies, etc. They can develop the mood of a song. Some will even write the underscoring sections or the dance arrangements (which bleeds into composing).

So, it's a blurry line sometimes, but a fascinating one.

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Actually, leefowler, you're pointing out a very good distinction between "music arranger" and "orchestrator."

Most people think they're one in the same.

Sometimes they are to a point, but the "jobs" and their creative contributions are usually different.

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so when it says "Music by..." that just means the melodies & tempos and whatnot? Like does ALW orchestrate his own scores? Does Sondheim? I know Larson didn't.

It can actually be much more vague than you realize. I did a show reginally about 10 years ago when I discovered that the dance arranger was the only literate person on staff and that the lead sheets we were getting from the writers meant that I had to arrange everything I was given before I could think of scoring it. I still don't think the writers had any idea of what they wanted the show to sound like. Harvey Schmidt is generally pretty loose about things until he hears the band, and then he may say "I don't like the horn" or "Can you take that out?" He's also great about things you've added that he likes.

The rumor about bob Merrill's scores for "New Girl in Town" and others was that he played his melodies on a toy xylophone and Philip J. Lang, the orchestrator harmonized the tune, arranged it, and scored it. Hershy Kay supposedly was in a band rehearsal where the band played the tune in unison. The composer turned and said "what's that?" and Hershy said "what you gave me."

I've always compared the job to a photo: the composer gives you a piano sketch and that's the black & white photo; the orchestrator's job is to color it using whatever instruments he, the composer, and producer agree upon.

Neither Sondheim nor ALW orchestrate their own scores. Not many composers do (or have the time, training and/or interest in doing so). Even those who can orchestrate, like Jason Robert Brown, will sometimes leave the job to someone else (he had Don Sebesky orchestrate Parade), partly due to time and partly because of what a certain orchestrator can bring to the score (Brown adored the way Sebesky orchestrated and knew he would bring something to the sound of the show that he couldn't).

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It almost always has to do with how the composer composes. Those of us who use computer programs to compose like the option of orchestrating at the same time -- it gives us a better sense of how things will sound (if you have good samples), and it is all just a click away. If a composer composes on a single instrument (piano or kazoo), the chances of them taking the time to orchestrate are fairly low.

Also, many times, like Margo mentions, the composer wants someone to bring something to a work, so they have someone else orchestrate.

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I may be wrong, but didn't Rodgers also orchestrate (in addition to composing) "Slaughter on Tenth Avenue" for ON YOUR TOES? I thought I read that he did.

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You're right, he did write "Slaughter", but it was orchestrated by (I think) Hans Spialek. I'm not aware of Rodgers orchestrating anything ever. Among the ballets written by Trude Rittman:

Oklahoma Dream Ballet
Small House Of Uncle Thomas
Flower Drum Song Dream Ballet

She also wrote the very beautiful interlude that comes after "Twin Soliloquies" in South Pacific.

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Thanks for the info/clarification.

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And Robert Russell Bennett orchestrated the R&H shows... brilliantly, I might add. He helped give them their "sound."

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