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#1

DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

I was watching Jay Leno yesterday when it dawned on me:

How about Queen Latifah as "Elfie"?
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
#2

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Capn - I love Queen to death - but I don't think she could sing that role.
#3

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

LOL, Firstly, it's "Effie", not "Elfie nee Elphie". Latifah couldn't pull it off vocally, but that slip of the keyboard makes me imagine Latifah as Elphaba. Mercy. :)
#4

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Not in a million years. She doesn't begin to have the range or the power or the gospel background (she's rapper turned singer, remember). She a cute little voice and a decent sound, but she wouldn't make it through one performance as Effie, let alone do it eight times a week.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#5

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Hahaha, yes, Effie. Oops!

Not too familar with the show. I only know the song "One Night Only" and "And I Am Telling You."

I looked from a Hollywood eye. A diva, who can definitely sing, can act (although some would argue not), has already been in a musical, and is in the buzz.

Hmm. Who could take on the role? I don't think Miramax would go with a unknown.

Margo - not talking about a Broadway revival - but the upcoming movie.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle

Updated On: 10/14/04 at 01:08 PM

#6

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Actually they probably will have to and put stars in the more glamorous roles of Deena, Lorrell and Michelle Morris, plus maybe a name or two for the men -- Curtis, CC, Marty, et al. There just aren't any star names capable of singing Effie as written (Frenchie Davis and Kelly Price have the ability, but aren't really stars).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#7

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Not only that Margo, but Effie White is an ACTING as well as singing role.

I doubt Q.L. to rise to the various emotional levels as portrayed by character.

'Mama' in CHICAGO was a one dimensional role and therefore, not a hard stretch for her to act.
"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."
#8

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

is there any doubt that Beyonce' will be somehow involved?
#9

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Well, to be fair, Latifah is a better actress than Jennifer Holliday ever was (along with several of her successors in the role). Holliday gave me goosebumps and blew me away vocally, but her acting was at times like something out of a silent movie (Bennett did his best with her, but she was a rank amateur in the acting department and it showed).

You cast Effies for the voice first and then hope for the best in the dialogue scenes. Looking at her performances in Set It Off, Living Out Loud, and Brown Sugar -- to name a few -- Effie's acting demands are easily within Latifah's talents. But, she can't sing the role.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#10

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Margo,

I don't want to start a debate here (we have ENOUGH of those going on right now!), but in my opinion, the songs Effie sings are like one-act plays and require a lot of acting AND vocalizing to pull them off.

Do you think a "rank amateur" actress could have tugged at her heart-strings the way Holliday did during "And I am Telling You..."?

Look at the Sondheim musicals. Elaine Stritch acted ANG sang "The Ladies Who Lunch." Ditto for Dorothy Collins and "In Buddy's Eyes." I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point.

Singing in musical theater is not like recording a song on a pop album, it requires the depth, emotion, and feeling that only a competent actor can bring to the table.

OK, I'm off my soapbox! :)
"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."
#11

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Sorry but I have to agree with Margo on this one. I saw "Dreamgirls" a number of times and before that I saw Jennifer in "Your Arms Are Too Short To Box With God". She is a singer first, and a great singer at that, but she was an amateur and when she was not singing her acting work was distracting. I saw her, in later years, in an episode of Ally McBeal and she still had problems being believable as an actress.
"Smart! And into all those exotic mystiques -- The Kama Sutra and Chinese techniques. I hear she knows more than seventy-five. Call me tomorrow if you're still alive!"
#12

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Lilias White was in the Indie film, "Pieces of April", which was written & directed by Peter Hedges. It also starred Katie Holmes, Patricia Clarkson, Derek Luke and Sean Hayes, along with Oliver Platt. Excellent film. I've seen it thrice.

I thought Lilias White was great at the "Hair" benefit. The audience did too. Much applause for her.

I enjoy Queen Latifah's work too.
#13

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

<<<< Do you think a "rank amateur" actress could have tugged at her heart-strings the way Holliday did during "And I am Telling You..."? >>>

Yes, absolutely, because that's exactly what happened. By her own admission, she never knew or cared anything about Broadway or acting before DREAMGIRLS. She'd been discovered at 19 in Houston singing gospel on a local tv channel by a dancer in the road company of A Chorus Line who had close ties to Vinnette Carroll. Carroll was trying to cast the Broadway revival of her "Your Arms Too Short To Box With God." The dancer (Jamie Rogers) called Carroll immediately and said he had found someone for the Delores Hall role. Holliday was contacted and flown to New York and made her debut Broadway debut shortly afterwards as Jennifer Yvette Holliday. The role required no acting and had no lines, just a lot of powerhouse gospel singing (I saw her in the role and she was just incredible). She soon came to the attention of Bennett's people who were looking to replace Nell Carter (who'd left for Hollywood) in the role of Effie in the second DREAMGIRLS workshop. She came in, sang and got the part. Shortly thereafter, Eyen and Krieger wrote "And I Am Telling You..." with Holliday's voice in mind. When she first performed it for Bennett, he was absolutely devastated by it. Bennett said he was so overwhelmed by her performance of it that he had to walk out of the room and compose himself; the sound of it haunted him for weeks, months and ever after.

Just think, Holliday learned "And I Am Telling You..." in rehearsal room in a few minutes, walked out sang it sheet music in hand and devastated Bennett with it -- there was no acting to that, no sense memory ..... she simply belted out the notes that were in front of her. Holliday herself has said in interviews that, being a 20 year old deeply religious virgin at the time she took the role of Effie, she had no idea who this character was or what she was about or frankly what she was singing about half the time. She just sang it and said the lines and stood where Mr. Bennett told her to and it all just worked out fine that way. She's said that years later, now in her 40s, she's lived through all of Effie's experiences and now can bring that knowledge to playing the role (as she does on the road from time to time) and it's a much deeper interpretation than anything she did back in '81.

From gospel she knew how to infuse her singing with an incredible passion and intensity -- it's a technique, a sound, a learned talent. If you've ever spent any time in a gospel church (I sang gospel for years), you know that the music can very often be an emotionally overwhelming experience. It's not "acting" -- it's just a matter of how that kind of singing is done. The great gospel singers typically have multi-octave ranges, astonishing breath crontrol and are armed with a huge arsenal of technique and tricks -- growls, and all manner of melismatic flourishes designed to bring a congregation to its feet. Holliday has ranked as one of the country's premier gospel singers since her late teens and is a master of pushing an audience's buttons (her gospel recordings are outstanding).

I'm hardly the first to point out that Holliday was never much of an actress (and it's ludicrous to mention her in even the same breath as Stritch or Collins -- Holliday's much closer to Merman, who also wasn't the greatest or sublest actress but could raise the hair on the back of your neck and stop shows cold with the sheer force and power of her instrument). I've had several friends who were in the show over the years, including a couple in the original cast, and they've told me story after story of how in rehearsal Bennett nearly tore his hair out trying to teach her how to say a simple line naturally and how to walk across the stage without looking awkward. He helped her manufacture a performance that wasn't an embarassment, but mostly he just let her unleash that voice which masked all the flaws and gave the illusion that she was a real actress (but several cast members and even Bennett himself privately said disparaging things about her acting ability).

Look again at the Tony performance from '82 if you have it -- she makes "I'll make it, just get my dress...... where's my dress? .... Lorrell where's my dress?" sound like something she's reading off of a cue card even though she'd been doing the role for six months at that point. All that arm waving, eye-bugging and over-emoting would be more at home on the stage of the Metropolitan (where they don't expect their divas to be able to really act, either). It's dramatic and larger-than-life, but I wouldn't call it "acting."

Compare Holliday's performance of Effie with that of Julia McGirt or Sheila Ellis or Lillias White and there's no comparison in the acting department -- they were terrific actresses in addition to being first-rate singers and really interpreted the lyrics they were singing, finding subtlety and nuance amid all of that belting (McGirt's understated "I Am Changing" was a memorable example of that). But, whatever she lacked interpretationally, Holliday was truly a force of nature and overwhelmed audiences through the sheer vocal intensity. Whatever her shortcomings in the acting department, Holliday will forever be a legend for her powerhouse singing as Effie White.


"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

Updated On: 10/14/04 at 03:04 PM

#14

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Lillias is 53, roughly 10 years older than Jennifer Holliday and old enough to be Beyonce and Halle Berry's mother. Remember Effie, Deena and Lorrell have been friends since childhood and are supposed to be the same age -- do you really want to cast three 50-somethings as the Dreams???????
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#15

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

I agree, Margo. I saw Jennifer Holliday as Effie White in "Dreamgirls" three times and she knocked the audience's socks off. An unforgettable theatre experience.
#16

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Was anybody there the night Terry Burrell had to go on as "Effie"? Yes, it's true. [For those of you that don't know, Terry replaced her sister, Deborah, as "Michelle Morris" -- the girl brought into replace Effie. Beautiful, tall, and svelte -- and hardly a gospel type voice.] I think the DREAMGIRLS company was in the middle of a flu epidemic or something, and understudies were on for just about all the major roles. There was no one, absolutely NO ONE to do the "Effie" role, and Terry got shoved on with no rehearsal (or suitability to the part) whatsoever. If she hadn't done it, they would have had to cancel that night's performance.

True story.

Updated On: 10/14/04 at 03:23 PM

#17

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

I've got to just disagree with one small thing said by the brilliant Margo...

Yes, Jennifer didn't have the acting technique to do some of the book lines, but that did not make her a bad actor (at least by my definition). My definition of a good actor has little to do with whether they believe in the moment, or are even "in the moment," but rather whether the affect an audience. Jennifer certainly did affect her audience in profound and not-so-profound ways. I would contend that she has learned technique since she first did the role that helps her now, but that the core of her as an actor was learned in church.

What else is more theatrical than getting up and singing about eternity and spirit? It is where I started to learn acting, and I think that reveals itself watching the tony performance...she is a BRILLIANT actor when singing (yes, "where's my dress" is a bad line reading...but, it's not so bad as to remove her audience from her). She did something new as an actor with the role...namely, she brought church to the Broadway stage in the form of Effie White.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
#18

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

I saw Terry painfully screetch her way through Lorrell one night. Ouch. She had been begging Bennett to do the role for months (and her off stage personality was sort of kooky like Lorrell's -- though on stage she was the picture pf poise and elegance), so he finally relented, when Loretta went on vacation. SO strident. SO FLAT. SO painful. I cannot imagine how badly she would have butchered Effie.

But, Dreamgirls went through lots of those types of crises -- by the end of the run, Bennett had learned that Effie needed to have three to four understudies at all times, because it happened on several occasions that that the main Effie and two of her understudies had all blown out their voices in the same week and were on vocal rest. I actually saw a fourth understudy one night (a friend in the show told me the main girl was on vacation, her replacement for the week was on vocal rest, the second understudy had the flu, and the third understudy had blown her voice out after the matinee). This little 19 year old girl fresh out of the NY high school of the performing arts (LaGuardia) did her best, but her voice, while gorgeous, was too small for Effie -- Lorretta Devine drowned her out every time she opened her mouth.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

Updated On: 10/14/04 at 03:41 PM

#19

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Margo,

Since you seem to be something of a DG afficionado (as am I), did you happen to see Linda Leilani Brown perform "Deena" when she subbed for S.L. Ralph? I did -- and thought she was great. Brought something entirely new to the role -- because by that time Sheryl Lee was phoning it in from Jersey. Brown also was very similar to Diana Ross -- either by design, or the similarity in their teeth. :)

I also saw an understudy go on for Sheryl Lee Ralph mid-performance -- she broke her ankle or something during the first act. When the understudy took over, the show came to life, for some reason -- again, probably because the role was being approached with energy. At curtain call, the audience really gave her an ovation. Well-deserved.
#20

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

touchme - I know you said you were going to disagree with Margo, but honestly it seems to me that you were saying the same thing - that the emotion of her performance was born in the gospel infused passion of her singing.
#21

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Linda Leilani Brown was terrific -- very pretty, with a better voice and more charismatic presence than Ralph. And yes, I remember her teeth re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#22

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

dg...i think the difference is that i think that made her a good actor, not a bad one.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'" -- unknown
#23

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Thanks for all the background information on Holliday as Effie White, Margo.

Perhaps this particular situation is somewhat unique; but I still think performing a song in a musical requires acting abilities that are not needed when recording a pop song.

By the way, there is a mousy girl in an old raincoat who's been waiting outside to try and get a glimpse of you after your show. I think her name is Eve something. Should I let her in? :)
"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."
#24

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

"Birdie.... The Heave-Ho!"

"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#25

re: DREAMGIRLS Movie Casting

Yep. I always what Thelma Ritter's reaction must have been when she first learned they had transformed her part into a gay hair stylist! :)
"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."

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